Post 85 of my Maine Road 100 countdown is a FA Cup reminder of a day that I know I loved as a kid. It was the day (24 January) in 1981 when John Bond’s Manchester City defeated his former club Norwich 6-0 in the FA Cup fourth round tie. I was sat in that uncovered bit between the Main Stand and the North Stand (it was cheaper but if it rained it was somewhat unpleasant, especially when the rain blew off the Main Stand roof on to us!).
This 1971 image shows the area I was sat in (number 2) that day:
Maine Road aerial 1971 from Farewell To Maine Road
Subscribers can read a report and watch highlights of the game here:
Subscribe to get access
If you would like to read this and all the other great content on here then please subscribe. Annual subscribers (£20 per year, sign up here) get access to everything posted on the site including PDFs of 2 of my out of print books and archived content like my exclusive audio interviews with John Bond, Malcolm Allison etc. Not only that but you’ll be helping to support this site’s development.
If you would like to read this and all other great content on here then please subscribe. Monthly subscribers (£3 per month, cancel anytime and sign up here) get access to everything posted on the site since 1 October 2022. Not only that but you’ll be helping to support this site’s development.
For post 77 in my Maine Rd 100 countdown a reminder of a record City have held for almost a century! This image is of a day in 1924 when City attracted the highest crowd on a club ground. The drawing is looking from the Main Stand towards the Popular Side, later Kippax. It’s no longer the record attendance because it was beaten by another record crowd at Maine Rd a decade later. Want to know more? The read on…
1925 Aerial photo of Maine Road and Platt Fields Park
A record Manchester City have held for 99 years was set on 8 March in 1924 – the record is the highest attendance on a club ground! The record set in 1924 saw 76,166 attend City v Cardiff. City had moved to their new Maine Road stadium in August 1923. The capacity of the venue was estimated at around 90,000 but was actually approximately 83,000 when the stadium opened (it was enlarged in 1931 and 1935).
In its first season the capacity was tested and, on that day (8 March) in 1924 the largest attendance for any footballing fixture (including three FA Cup Finals) in Manchester gathered to watch the Blues. This was also, at the time, the record crowd for any game played on an English club ground. It was beaten ten years later when 84,569 watched City v Stoke. You can read about the remarkable day in 1924 below:
Subscribe to get access
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £20 a year (access to everything) or £3 per month (see below).
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £20 a year (see above) or £3 per month (cancel anytime; access to everything posted since 1 October 2022).
This has been a sample of the material on http://www.GJFootballArchive.com If you would like to read all the in-depth articles (including the entire Manchester A Football History book and the audio interview with John Bond) then please subscribe. It works out about £1.67 a month if you take out an annual subscription (£20 per year) or £3 a month if you’d like to sign up for a month at a time. Each subscriber gets full access to the 260+ articles posted so far and the hundreds scheduled to be posted in the coming weeks.
For post 76 of my Maine Rd 100 countdown a reminder of a day when over 74,000 watched managerless Manchester City at Maine Road. The image is of Frank Roberts, a City star that day. That day (30 January 1926) City faced Huddersfield Town in a FA Cup tie at Maine Road, watched by 74,799.
The following article, for subscribers to GJFootballArchive.com, provides the background story to the tie and film of the game.
Subscribe to get access – Annual
If you would like to view this article then please subscribe below. It works out about £1.67 a month if you take out an annual subscription (£20 per year) or £3 a month if you’d like to sign up for a month at a time (below). Annual subscribers get full access to the 1000+ articles posted so far and the hundreds scheduled to be posted in the coming weeks.
If you would like to view this article then please subscribe below. It works out about £1.67 a month if you take out an annual subscription (£20 per year, above) or £3 a month if you’d like to sign up for a month at a time (here). Monthly subscribers get full access to everything posted since 1 October 2022 and the hundreds scheduled to be posted in the coming weeks.
For post 73 of my Maine Rd 100 countdown I’ve posted this great newspaper cutting from a significant Manchester derby. The game was on 29th January in 1955 and goals from Joe Hayes and Don Revie gave Manchester City a 2-0 victory over Manchester United in the FAC in front of 74,723. I’ve posted it partly because of the game’s significance but mostly because I just love the way newspapers would try to explain everything via images and text like this.
If you’d like to know the story of the game and see some great footage of it too then please subscribe (see below).
Subscribe to get access – Monthly
If you take out a monthly subscription (£3 a month) you get access to everything posted since 1 October 2022 and can cancel anytime). if you’d like to sign up for a month at a time.
If you would like to read this and the blog’s other in-depth, longer articles (including the entire Manchester A Football History book) then please subscribe below. It works out about £1.67 a month if you take out an annual subscription (£20 per year) or £3 a month if you’d like to sign up for a month at a time. Annual subscribers get full access to the 1000+ articles posted so far and the hundreds scheduled to be posted in the coming weeks.
I don’t know where to start with this but I wanted to get a few thoughts down ahead of the celebration chat I’ve planned for Wednesday (see link below)… This has been an absolutely incredible few weeks for fans of Manchester City and it’s also be mentally and physically draining too. It will be in the coming weeks that we get to relax and look back on it all but I wanted to get some top of the head thoughts down now while they’re buzzing around. So here goes…
The history of football moves at a frantic pace and there are key moments (Tueart, Dickov, Aguerooooooooooooo for example) that are era defining or represent the beginning or the end of an era. This last week is another of those with Rodri’s goal at Istanbul finally bringing City the Champions League that we’ve all craved for so long (but pretended at times that we didn’t).
Manchester City are now Champions Of Europe and, finally, Villa fans can stop singing their song to us! There were many occasions over the decades since City’s last European trophy that the club had a squad of players that were capable of major European success but sadly circumstances worked against them. There were also times when the club suffered major failures but I’ll forget those for the moment.
Depending on when you were born you tend to fall into three rough categories of City fan (there’s more than this but I hope you get my point):
Those who remember City as a major power, winning trophies and being ahead of United, Liverpool & others; then falling apart under bad chairmanship; then resurrected; then takeover and what we have today.
Those who remember the failures of the 80s/90s; the lack of chance of competing then the takeover and the glory that’s followed.
Those who have only known City as a dominant, trophy winning force.
The media tend to portray City as a failing 3rd tier club that got lucky, but the truth is that that was only one season and it was only in the late 1990s that United overtook City in terms of number of seasons at the highest level (I’ll explain the numbers another day but prior to the late 1990s United had spent more seasons between 1894 and then in the second tier than City had !).
In the 1970s City won three times as many trophies as United and even in the 1990s/2000s the Blues only spent 6 seasons out of the top flight. This was two spells (5 years and 1 year) and that 5 year spell was the longest period the Blues had ever endured out of the top flight.
This season finding European success has lifted everything in a global sense. I’ve talked previously (way back in 2012) about City being the club for the new generation and that is absolutely how it is panning out. Add to the Champions League the FA Cup – where City’s traditional rivals United were vanquished – and the Premier League (where City’s old rival from the 1930s looked certain to win the League for much of the season) and this has been a truly brilliant season.
City and United are now the only clubs ever to have achieved THE treble – a truly great achievement that many thought impossible. Add to that that Guardiola’s Blues have previously become the ONLY team to win a domestic treble and you get to see that this isn’t simply the greatest ever Manchester City side but one of, if not THE, greatest ever side in English football.
We’ve had the Viking Call (the best team in the land and all the world) chant for almost 50 years now but, for the first time, the words are absolutely true (though we haven’t yet had a competitive fixture to determine the best world team of course – that will come!).
If you’d like to come and join me for an online celebration then please do:
I’ve been asked whether Gundogan’s goal in the FA Cup final was the fastest Manchester City goal of all time. Sadly, it’s impossible to prove as we do not have accurate times for the majority of goals scored throughout football history. Often in the past reports would say things like: ‘From the kick-off City rushed forward and scored.’ No time and even when this is said in reports highlights that have been found often show that this was not the case, so it’s impossible to say conclusively.
We know it’s the fastest FA Cup final goal of all time and, at 12 seconds, it’s also the fastest goal in a Manchester derby. Back in 1975 Dennis Tueart netted what was claimed to be the fastest derby goal at 35 seconds. I interviewed him about it a few years ago:
GJ: ‘You played in lots of significant derbies over the years, but there is one, above all others, that we should mention – the November 1975 League Cup tie at Maine Road.‘
DT: ‘I scored the first goal after about 35 seconds and that is the fastest goal in a Manchester derby. It was a midweek game at Maine Road and I loved night matches, under the floodlights, packed stadium. Incredible. The lights meant that the stadium shone out amongst the dark streets – it was the whole focus.
Dennis Tueart scores after 35 seconds v United, 1975
‘We were 1-0 up and played great football. 3-0 up after 36 minutes when I got my second goal after Asa Hartford had got City’s second. Colin Bell was injured and stretchered off which was by far the worst moment of the evening and would impact us for the next few years.
‘After the game we went to Cellar Vie in the city centre, and I walked in and I got a standing ovation from everyone in there. Again it hit home how important the derby was to the city of Manchester.’
Now Gundogan holds the record but we should also mention Shaun Goater who in 2003 netted after only 9 seconds of coming on as substitute. You can read about that here:
Gundogan’s goal is the fastest in a derby, while Goater’s goal was the fastest ever netted in a derby from a player’s arrival on the pitch, regardless of stage of the game.
If you’d like to read the indepth material on this website, or download the entire Manchester A Football History, Farewell to Maine Road or my first book then why not subscribe? Details here:
If you enjoy all the free material on my website and would like to support my research and keep this website going (but don’t want to subscribe) then why not make a one-time donation (or buy me a coffee). All support for my research is valued and welcome. It allows me to keep some free material available for all. Thanks.
Congratulations to West Ham on your success in last night’s Europa Conference League. Great news for your club and for those clubs who wonder whether competitions like this are a drain or something to aim for. I’ve now updated the table showing the span of success – i.e. the number of years between a club’s first major success (FA Cup, League, League Cup, European trophy) and their most recent. West Ham have jumped some way up that list.
Okay, the span of success does not show how many trophies each club has won or how frequently that club has experienced great eras of success, but it does demonstrate how wrong those people are who believe certain clubs were unsuccessful until recent years, or those who think certain clubs have always been giants. The column on first major success helps to show when some clubs first became trophy-winning significant (often after transformational investment).
West Ham have proved that if you’re a club that hasn’t won a major trophy for a while putting your focus on achieving trophy success ahead of the odd Premier League position can bring significant reward. In future decades no one will remember who finished seventh, tenth or fifteenth but they will remember the trophies.
I know clubs focus on their financials but winning a trophy has longevity, gaining the odd Premier League place provides a bit of extra cash now but no long term kudos. Winning a trophy attracts new fans and brings money-spinning opportunities too.
If I was a supporter of Everton, Aston Villa or any of the other major clubs who have not found significant success in recent decades then I would absolutely want my team to go for whichever cup competition seems most likely to win. That’s what I always wanted from City before they were able to compete for the League again. Winning the FA Cup in 2011 helped everything that followed happen.
While you’re here… why not take a look at the free to read daily Maine Road features counting down to the old stadium’s 100th anniversary of its first game? Here are a sample couple of features (follow the Maine Road tag or search for more):
For many, many years Dave Masey has been collecting stats and historical information on Manchester City. Like me he was a member of the Association of Football Statisticians and he has helped me often over the years. Following Saturday’s FA Cup final he got in touch with me to tell me about one of his spreadsheets which holds details of City scorers in trophy winning games.
His records capture those who have scored in major cup finals, but besides Cup Finals he also records other trophy-winning games. These include the deciding League games from 1937 onwards against Sheffield Wednesday (1937), Newcastle, QPR, West Ham, Brighton and Villa (2022), but nothing from three recent title successes where the Blues clinched the title when they were not playing. Got that? Good, now….
Dave tells me that Gundogan is now at the top of the list with 5 goals, overtaking Neil Young and Sergio Aguero. So he has scored more goals in trophy-winning games than any other Blue.
The list of scorers in trophy winning games reads:
1904
Meredith
1934/7
Tilson (3), Brook (2), Doherty
1956
Hayes, Dyson, Johnstone
1968/70
Young (4), Lee (2), Summerbee, Doyle, Pardoe
1976
P Barnes, Tueart
2011-(former)
Aguero (4), Y Toure (2), Nasri (2), Kompany (2), D Silva (2),Jesus (2), Sterling (2), Dzeko, Zabaleta, Navas, Fernandinho
2016-(current)
Gundogan (5), Laporte (2), Rodri (2), Mahrez, De Bruyne
Dave also tells me that in the three seasons where somebody else’s defeat clinched the title for City, the scorers in the club’s last game before the title confirmation were:
Gundogan (3), Sterling (2), Jesus, Haaland.
As Dave says, Ilkay gets a remarkable number of important goals, particularly for somebody who is ‘just’ a 1 goal in 5 games player (60 in 303 for City). Certainly this season he has played a true leader’s role and, looking at his place in this table, he is clearly a man for all trophy-winning seasons.
Driving back from Wembley last Saturday both Talksport and BBC Radio 5 Live had phone-in shows where the question kept being brought up about comparing Manchester United’s treble in 1999 with the possibility of City managing the same achievement this year. Obviously, a football game can go any direction and no success is guaranteed ever, so I am absolutely not going to talk as if something has been achieved when it hasn’t. If City do manage this incredible feat then the comparisons are likely to be made again BUT how sensible is this?
I am against making these comparisons because I think they’re futile. A bit like when I asked former City player Johnny Williamson, who had played with both Frank Swift and Bert Trautmann, which was best. He said: ‘It doesn’t matter. You pick one and I’ll pick the other because the two of them were head and shoulders above the rest!’
United’s treble in 1999 was absolutely incredible and a major achievement. If City manage the same this weekend then that will also be incredible and a major achievement. Which is best doesn’t matter and even if it did can we really do an accurate comparison? 24 years is a long time in football and the game changes so much in that time.
Much has been made about where City were in 1999 (winning promotion from ‘new’ Division Two) when United won their treble. People have said: ‘How can a team go from promotion challengers to potential treble winners in 24 years?’ Well, guess where United were 24 years before their treble…. they were promotion challengers in ‘old’ Division Two!
Martin Buchan and Alex Stepney celebrating United’s promotion in 1975 at Old Trafford
In the years that followed United’s promotion in 1975 they had a few peaks and troughs as City have. It wasn’t until 1993 (18 years after promotion) that they won the League for the first time since the 1960s but they had won the FA Cup 2 years after promotion. It took City only 13 years after their 1999 promotion to win the League but the FA Cup came in 2011 (12 years after the 1999 promotion). Both clubs spent a lot of money to find those first successes with City receiving Abu Dhabi investment and United borrowing heavily (the increasing level of debt was frequently raised by shareholders back then who questioned whether the club could sustain making purchases like they had to create the most expensive British team ever up to that point) to fund Ferguson’s first successful team.
Comparisons would need to look into every aspect of both clubs – for example Pep’s team are the only team to win a domestic treble as well, so does that elevate their current achievements? Similarly, Ferguson led United to a period of sustained success and dominance that no one else has matched so far. Comparisons are really fairly pointless.
To United fans their treble will always be the best and to City fans, if the club is lucky enough to achieve the same, that will be the best. For most neutrals it will be ‘so what?’, although they’ll downplay any success by a rival. I remember in 1999 someone phoning in a BBC radio show after United had won the Champions League for the second time. The caller was a Nottingham Forest fan who had got fed up with all the praise being heaped on United and, like many United fans today about City, he felt his club was more worthy. He said something like: ‘You keep going on about this United team but what have they done? They’ve just matched what Forest and Brian Clough achieved years ago. We’ve had two European Cups for years and our team was better and cheaper than this lot!’
It’s all a game to fill programmes and articles. It’s not needed. If you think about it 24 years is an extremely long time. If both Manchester clubs can go from promotion chasing teams to European finals in those years then that’s some journey. You have to be well into your 30s to stand a chance of being able to compare 1999 and 2023 and for anyone under that age it’s ancient history and another ‘so what?’.
When United won the treble in 1999 I was an adult with two kids and was just in my 30s. I’d written four major books on Manchester football (including the Pride of Manchester on Manchester derby matches) by this time and had researched the history of both clubs in-depth, so I did get interviewed a lot by TV and radio. I was perceived as an expert, but if you’d have asked me to compare United’s 1975 promotion team with City’s 1999 promotion team I would’ve had to admit I was too young to appreciate what United’s 1975 achievement was like. I’d be able to quote journalists and interviewees but I couldn’t give an honest view which group of players was better. It’s the same now, yet we’ve a whole range of people offering views who are either invested in one club or who are too young to be able to talk with knowledge about it. In any case football in 2023 is somewhat different to football in 1999 – just as that was so different from 1975 and that so different from 1951.
Paul Dickov at Wembley 1999
Maybe we should have filled phone-ins after City had won the double on Saturday with questions like: ‘How does City’s League and Cup double compare with past doubles? Was this City team better than Preston in 1889?’ It’s ludicrous to even try.
Ahead of West Ham’s European final tomorrow night (7 June) I thought I’d post the latest update to the table showing the span of success – i.e. the number of years between a club’s first major success (FA Cup, League, League Cup, European trophy) and their most recent. If West Ham win tomorrow they will leap ahead of Leicester City.
This season has seen City overtake Blackburn Rovers and they are now second to Liverpool.
Okay, the span of success does not show how many trophies each club has won or how frequently that club has experienced great eras of success, but it does demonstrate how wrong those people are who believe certain clubs were unsuccessful until recent years, or those who think certain clubs have always been giants. The column on first major success helps to show when some clubs first became trophy-winning significant (often after transformational investment).
While you’re here… why not take a look at the free to read daily Maine Road features counting down to the old stadium’s 100th anniversary of its first game? Here are a sample couple of features (follow the Maine Road tag or search for more):
Gary James' Football Archive 