Tag Archives: Attendances

Double The Crowd: Crerand’s Bet With Allison

60 years ago this week (March 1966) Manchester City announced that their FA Cup quarter final was a 63,000 sell out. Why is this significant? Because the attendance was larger than any domestic crowd at Old Trafford that season, but why is that significant? Because at the start of the season United’s Pat Crerand bet City assistant manager Malcolm Allison that City would never get more than 30,000 for a game again! I interviewed Malcolm back in 1993 when we talked about this and he also mentioned it in he biography. The story…

Basically, Allison was sat at United’s League championship celebration and became somewhat frustrated by the glorification of United that night. While Joe Mercer took a diplomatic approach, afterall it was United’s celebration dinner, Allison decided to speak out. He told Matt Busby’s son Sandy that his dad had a twenty year start but ‘I’ll pass him in three’ and then Allison claimed he got into a discussion with Crerand about ‘little City’ compared to United. Allison claimed Crerand made a £10 bet with him that City would never again get 30,000+ in Maine Road.

A pause in the action (September 1967 Manchester derby) gives Summerbee Crerand and Dunne an opportunity to debate the action so far (Image: The Pride of Manchester, 1991)

On a Wednesday night in October (27/10/65) City attracted 34,091 for the visit of Norwich in the Second Division. Allison told me he couldn’t remember whether he ever got his £10 but he did laugh a great deal when I told him that United’s attendance the previous Saturday was 32,716 for the top flight visit of Fulham.

Malcolm Allison at the launch of Gary James’ Football With A Smile: The Authorised Biography of Joe Mercer, OBE in December 1993. Note Francis Lee appearing behind Allison.

What was even more remarkable was that the City-Everton FAC tie on 26 March 1966 was watched by 63,034 and that was higher than any domestic crowd at United that season. Allison laughed again when we discussed that briefly. As a comparison, United attracted 58,161 for their League game with Liverpool (lowest home League attendance 23,039 v Aston Villa) and they did get 60,433 for their FAC Cup quarter-final replay with Preston. Plus United managed to better all these attendances with 64,035 for their European Cup quarter-final with Benfica.

I did an earlier interview with Allison that can be listened to here:

Malcolm Allison Audio Interview Part One

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102 Years of a National Crowd Record for Manchester City!

Today (8 March) marks the 102nd anniversary of a record Manchester City set – the record is the highest attendance on a club ground! The record set in 1924 saw 76,166 attend City v Cardiff. Keep reading all those who think ‘don’t you mean 84,569 in 1934?’ – City already held the record… City had moved to their new Maine Road stadium in August 1923. The capacity of the venue was estimated at around 90,000 but was actually approximately 83,000 when the stadium opened (it was enlarged in 1931 and 1935).

In its first season the capacity was tested and, on this day (8 March) in 1924 the largest attendance for any footballing fixture (including three FA Cup Finals) in Manchester gathered to watch the Blues. This was also, at the time, the record crowd for any game played on an English club ground. It was beaten ten years later when 84,569 watched City v Stoke – so It’s 102 years of this record for the Blues!

You can read about the remarkable day in 1924 below:

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You can read about the attendance that broke this record (again by City at Maine Road) here:

A National Record – 84,569

Other record crowd articles can be seen here:

https://gjfootballarchive.com/tag/record-crowd/

Manchester City v River Plate at Maine Road

On 2 February 1952 Manchester City were defeated 4-3 by Argentinian football club River Plate in a friendly at Maine Road, watched by a crowd of 34,974. Here are some interesting images from an official record book showing details of entertainment tax paid by City and turnstile records. I’m not certain if anyone has ever researched how much money football clubs paid in entertainment tax over the years but if anyone’s interested then hopefully the following will help.

You can see from the above photo a few match details such as HT/FT scores, weather and referee details. In addition the various admission prices can be seen (not all shown on this image) and the record book also includes details of how many fans attended within these prices per turnstile. A summary of the attendance per price and the amount of tax paid can be seen in the next image:

For the record City’s goals were scored by Don Revie, Jimmy Meadows and Roy Clarke. The two images below show the name of the turnstile operator and the admissions via that turnstile and the second image shows the total attendance and income details.

The series on the 1950s includes some free articles and some subscriber only features. If you’d like to know more on this period then why not subscriber and enjoy the following article on the 1951-52 season.

This is a subscriber article and you can read it by subscribing below.

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Manchester’s Support

Here’s a map I published in my book Manchester A Football History. It shows the spread of support for both City and United across Manchester as recorded in an academic study back in 2002 (using data from 2001). Basically this was based on season ticket holders in each postcode area of Manchester and shows whether a postcode area was Red or Blue at that time. You can see that back then City had more season ticket holders in almost every district of the city centre and east Manchester while United tended to have more in western districts. However, this was based on the number of season ticket holders in 2001. Since then of course the numbers attending games at both clubs have increased significantly.

In my chapter I made a comment about how this analysis might change:

Screenshot

Top Two Divisions Attendances and Table From 40 Years Ago!

Last week I posted the top flight attendances for this last week forty years ago and this led to a number of comments/questions and so to answer some of those I’ve now posted the top two divisions attendances together with the two League tables AND the end of season average attendances. People asked for clarity on how the figures compared to the second tier and whether League position played its part in affecting crowds. As a reminder here’s last week’s attendances…

And here’s this week’s (published 24 November 1985) and the League table too.

Obviously, these are only snapshots from that season but to add a bit more context here are the end of season averages here are the top 46 best supported clubs in order that season (hopefully it might make those who sing songs like ‘Where Were You?’ think about the crowds at their own clubs first):

A few notable League positions for those who do sing ‘Where Were You?’… The top eight clubs in the League were: Liverpool (champions), Everton, West Ham, Man Utd, Sheff Wed, Chelsea, Arsenal and Forest. Manchester City (who were 4th best supported club) were 15th (only 4 points above relegation zone), Spurs were tenth, Newcastle 11th and Aston Villa 16th.

In the Second Division best supported club Sunderland were 18th (avoiding relegation by 4 points); the top four were Norwich, Charlton, Wimbledon and Portsmouth.

If you’d like to know more about Manchester City at this time, here’s a 2,500 word subscriber feature on the 1985-86 season. Enjoy!

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Attendances 40 Years Ago!

These two results tables for top flight football in November 1985 make interesting reading. I’ve included the details published today (17 November, for games played the previous day) in 1985 and also the week after’s details too. This gives an idea of what the top clubs were attracting back then. Notice West Ham’s game attracted more at home than Arsenal’s and that Liverpool were over 26,000 less than Manchester United. Arsenal’s crowd was 6,000 less than struggling Manchester City and Tottenham attracted more than Arsenal too. Reigning League champions Everton were some way ahead of the London clubs and only about 600 behind Liverpool. Obviously, these are only snapshots from two weekends but hopefully it might make those who sing songs like ‘Where Were You?’ think about the crowds at their own clubs first.

the Marwood scoring for Sheffield Wednesday was of course Brian Marwood who went on to play a key part in Manchester City’s modern return to glory. If you’d like to know more about Manchester City at this time, here’s a 2,500 word subscriber feature on the 1985-86 season. Enjoy!

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The Days When Televised Games Led To Claims For Compensation

Here’s an interesting cutting from 39 years ago today (15 November 1986). Back then live televised football matches were deemed to have an effect on attendances at games and clubs could put in a claim for compensation if they could prove their gate would normally have been higher. This article talks of Liverpool’s home game with Sheffield Wednesday… The attendance was 28,020.

Charlton-Arsenal Attendance

Here’s a cutting from a Manchester City match programme in October 1936 which talks of a game between Charlton and Arsenal, played on 17 October 1936. The official attendance that day was 68,160 for the League game. Note how it talks of Arsenal leaving their original base south of the Thames due to issues attracting crowds and then the mention of Charlton’s popularity in south London.

Incidentally, Manchester City’s record League attendance at this time was 79,491 and record attendance was 84,569.

You can find out all about Manchester City during the 1936-37 season by reading the following 2,500 word subscriber article on that season. If you subscribe (see below) I hope you enjoy it. If you don’t subscribe then why not try it for a month (£3 per month or sign up for a year at a discounted £20 per year)?

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The 1920s: The Second Attempt

The new series on Manchester City in the 1920s continues today with a 700 word subscriber article on the 1927-28 season. If you subscribe (see below) I hope you enjoy it. If you are not currently a subscriber then why not try it for a month (£3 per month or sign up for a year at a discounted £20 per year)?

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130,000 Capacity Stadium for Manchester City

This is an interesting cutting from 1935 talking about the possibility of increasing Maine Road to cope with the huge crowds that wanted to watch Manchester City play. It may seem crazy today but wasn’t such an odd idea in the 1930s. You can find out more on the story here:

Maine Road 100 – Day 57