Where Were You?

Fairly early on in the game between Manchester City and Arsenal the fans of the London club started to sing the old ‘Where were you when you were…’ chant. You’d think they’d know because often City were attracting better crowds than Arsenal. Let’s look at 1982-83 when I experienced my first relegation as a City fan. Back then City were the 4th best supported club (26,789) and Arsenal were 6th (24,153) – see the average attendance table above. City finished in a relegation position and Arsenal were 10th.

The following season Arsenal did attract a better average than City but they were the 5th best supported club in the entire 4 divisions and City were the 6th. In terms of League position Arsenal were 6th and City were 4th in Division Two.

We could talk about the late 1990s but neither club had a ground that could satisfy the demand to see them, so a sell out Maine Road in 1998-99 for third tier City has to compare with a sell out Highbury for title challenging Arsenal.

Since then stadium size has dictated average support but if we go back to earlier decades and assume that Arsenal’s ‘Where were you when you were sh*t’ refers to City heading towards relegation or being out of the top flight then City’s record is impressive overall. In 1965-66 (the last 2nd division season before the 1980s) City averaged 27,739 (10th best in entire League) while First Division Arsenal were the 9th best supported club on 29,036.

We can jump back even further. In the 1920s Arsenal were perceived as a popular club and in 1925-26 they averaged 31,471 – the 3rd best in the League. Where were City? Oh, City who were relegated that season were the 2nd best supported team with an average of almost 32,000. Not much more than Arsenal but the Gunners were 2nd in the League and City were relegated!

The year after Second Division City were the 3rd best supported club and top flight Arsenal were 4th!

1926-27 Average attendances. Manchester City in Second Division

The year after that (1927-28) Second Division City were the best supported club in the entire League with 37,468. Where were top flight Arsenal? 7th best supported with 27,434.

1927-28 Average attendances. Manchester City were the best supported club despite being in Second Division

It’s all a nonsense but if Arsenal fans, or any other team, want to sing songs like this then it would help if they knew their own history of support.

The 1932 FA Cup Semi-Final

In 1932 Manchester City and Arsenal faced each other in the FA Cup semi-final. It was the Blues’ third semi appearance in eight years and they would go on to better this stage in each of the following two seasons. This semi was controversial and it had major repercussions for City. You can read the full story (and watch highlights) below:

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George Graham Interview – March 1993

As it’s Manchester City v Arsenal here’s a flashback to March 1993 with a connection to both clubs. Back then I travelled to Arsenal’s old stadium, Highbury, to interview the Arsenal manager George Graham, not about the Gunners’ form that season or about a game with City but about his former boss – and Arsenal and Manchester City legend – Joe Mercer.

Joe was the Aston Villa manager who brought George to England many, many years before George had found fame as a footballer and Joe had taken Manchester City to their first European honour. Joe did win the League Cup as Aston Villa boss, but these were not great days for the former Everton and Arsenal playing legend, but he did always feel responsible for bringing George to England (and loved the success he brought Arsenal).

My interview with George had been arranged for Tuesday 30 March 1993 some time in advance but then Arsenal’s FA Cup semi-final with Tottenham was scheduled for the following Sunday at Wembley (a highly unusual occurrence at the time!). I expected to get a call cancelling the interview but instead George decided to go ahead with it.

On the day I parked up outside Highbury quite early but as I pulled up I saw George leave the stadium and jump into a car. I was early, so wasn’t too worried. Then I remembered the FA Cup semi-final and assumed that George would be busy with plans. I expected to be told when I entered the marble hall at Highbury that the meeting would be off.

When I spoke with the reception staff they told me to take a seat. They said that George had been called away and so could be a few minutes late (which he was). I was relieved because I’d been convinced he would cancel (it’s happened often with other busy managers).

I sat in reception thinking about the chat and then, a few minutes after we were due to meet, George walked in. He spoke with the receptionist and then came towards me, hand out, saying ‘I’m George Graham’ (I remember thinking ‘I know’ but I did love the fact that he introduced himself). He took me up to his impressive office at Highbury – no other offices at any ground I had been to at that time could match the quality and status of that room.

We then did the interview. It’s not my best – I think I was overawed by the situation – but I was appreciative of George’s time. During the interview Stewart Houston, his assistant, popped in to check something with George (I turned off my recorder) and George ushered him away, telling him that he was busy. Again, I loved this – other managers have sometimes disappeared and not come back but for George he’d set this time aside to see me and chat about Joe Mercer and that’s what he was doing.

Arsenal beat Spurs that weekend so, I suppose, George knew what he was doing but I do remember watching that game on TV thinking that if Arsenal lose I’d never be able to tell anyone that George had spent time being pestered about Joe Mercer when he should’ve been preparing for Tottenham!

If you subscribe to this site you can hear the interview below. I have been researching and writing for a long time and my Joe Mercer book was my third (first published in 1993). I am not employed by anyone and I do not have sponsorship either and so I’ve set up this website to help share my writing and research. The intention is to develop the archive and to provide access to as much of my material as possible over the coming weeks, months & years. Subscribers can already access over 1600 articles/posts including the entire Manchester A Football History book and audio interviews with Malcolm Allison and John Bond.

It costs £20 a year (it works out £1.67 a month) or £3 if you’d like to sign up a month at a time to get full access for as long as you subscribe.

Anyway, here’s the George Graham interview:

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One Moment In Time

For those who haven’t seen Manchester City’s match programme yet this season I’d just like to take a few moments to talk about my article this season. This year I’m doing a two page feature called ‘One Moment in Time’ where I select an image from a game, usually connecting the two clubs playing that day, and provide some information or tell a story.

For Ipswich I selected a classic 1981 FA Cup semi final image of fans on the Holte End while for Brentford I dug out an old glass plate image of City at Brentford in 1937 when the two teams challenged for the title.

I’ve already selected the photos and written my articles for tonight’s game with Inter, as well as the Arsenal and Watford games. You’ll have to buy the programmes to see what they are but I’m sure most City fans could guess that the Inter Milan feature will come from a certain major game between the two clubs in recent seasons.

I’m looking for ideas for future games of course, so if there’s a memorable image that you are aware of from a game between City and their opponents throughout this season then get in touch and remind me. It may be an image I’ve forgotten about. I’m trying to ensure these are not always the standard images people have seen. Where possible I want to select photos that are either capturing a moment that typifies City’s long history and great players or is a rare incident that was caught on camera.

Read the City programme throughout the season to see if your favourite City images are there.

The 1900s: 1906-1907 Newbould’s New Boys

Continuing the series of features on Manchester City in the early 1900s! Today it’s a 3900 word article telling the story of 1906-07 when the FA ban continued to affect Manchester’s Blues. This story continues to be one of skullduggery (by other teams too!) and powerful figures seeking to limit opposition.

All of this sound familiar? Well, get a brew and start reading below if you’re a subscriber. Maybe read the last few days’ features first?

If you’re not a subscriber then why not sign up for a month and see what you think?

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Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) or sign up a year at a time for the discounted annual fee of £20. This gives access to everything on the site, including PDFs of 3 of my books and various other articles, interviews and audio material. Each subscriber has access to all content posted during their subscription period too. Why not sign up for a month and see what you think?

More on the 1900s tomorrow. Why not subscribe and read this and all the other subscriber features?

The 1900s: 1903-1904 The FA Cup

Continuing the series of features on Manchester City in the early 1900s! Today it’s a 9400 (yes that’s right!) word article telling the story of 1903-04 when Manchester won its first major trophy. If you’re a subscriber you’ll need to get a brew before reading this celebration of that season. If you’re not a subscriber then why not?

Ever wondered how Manchester found its first major trophy success or what the scandal that rocked City was all about? Then subscribe and read this series of articles.

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Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) or sign up a year at a time for the discounted annual fee of £20. This gives access to everything on the site, including PDFs of 3 of my books and various other articles, interviews and audio material. Each subscriber has access to all content posted during their subscription period too. Why not sign up for a month and see what you think?

More on the 1900s tomorrow. Why not subscribe and read this and all the other subscriber features?

The 1900s: 1900-1901 Attendances

The series of features on the 1900s continues today with a simple look at the average attendances of league clubs. I’m publishing the statistics here for season 1900-1901 when Manchester City finished 11th in the First Division (top tier). There were 18 clubs in the division that season. Despite this relatively low position, City were the second best supported club – the highest position either Manchester team had enjoyed up to that point. League champions Liverpool were the 5th best supported club. Newton Heath (MUFC) were still a Second Division club and were 22nd best supported team.

All these figures are estimated based on newspaper reports of the period but are widely accepted as a good indication of support enjoyed at each club.

Match programme for 29 September 1900. Manchester City v Stoke

In the following table every team is in Division One unless (2) appears after their name. This indicates they were a Second Division club that season. Where two teams have the same average then these have been listed in alphabetic order.

1900-1901 Average Attendances

AverageTeam
18700Aston Villa
18300Manchester City
16225Everton
15800Newcastle
15000Liverpool
13600Sheff Utd
11525Sunderland
10575WBA
10175Bolton
9950Sheff Wed
9450Notts County
9350Nottm Forest
8375Middlesbrough (2)
8050Derby
6950Bury
6850Stoke
6575Blackburn
6325Preston
5900Small Heath (2)
5900Woolwich Arsenal (2)
5850Wolves
5475Newton Heath (2)
4975Leicester Fosse (2)
4625Grimsby (2)
3725Stockport (2)
3575Lincoln (2)
3125Walsall (2)
3100Burnley (2)
2850Barnsley (2)
2825Chesterfield (2)
2800Glossop (2)
2675New Brighton Tower (2)
2375Burton Swifts (2)
2075Burslem Port Vale (2)
2050Gainsborough Trinity (2)
1850Blackpool (2)

This series of features covers the final years of Ardwick, the birth of Manchester City and the Club’s first national success. Why not subscribe and read every feature?

More on the 1900s tomorrow.

The 1900s: 1899-1900 Attendances

The series of features on the 1900s starts today with a simple look at the average attendances of league clubs. I’m publishing the statistics here for season 1899-1900 when Manchester City was a First Division club for the first time. They were the third best supported club – the highest position either Manchester team had enjoyed up to that point. In fact City had been the best supported club for the opening months of the season as the heading photo shows (that’s from 20 January 1900).

All these figures are estimated based on newspaper reports of the period but are widely accepted as a good indication of support enjoyed at each club.

Manchester City with the Second Division Shield, 1899

In the following table every team is in Division One unless (2) appears after their name. This indicates they were a Second Division club that season. Where two teams have the same average then these have been listed in alphabetic order.

1899-1900 Average Attendances

AverageTeam
19825Aston Villa
16725Newcastle
16000Manchester City
12925Everton
11325Liverpool
11175Sheff Utd
10475Sunderland
8950Notts County
8125Derby
7875Nottm Forest
7700Stoke
7150Sheff Wed (2)
6575Wolves
6475Blackburn
6250Leicester Fosse (2)
6225Newton Heath (2)
6175WBA
5925Burnley
5925Middlesbrough (2)
5775Bury
5050Small Heath (2)
4825Preston
4800Bolton (2)
4125Woolwich Arsenal (2)
4000Glossop
3775Grimsby (2)
3775Lincoln (2)
2950Chesterfield (2)
2875New Brighton Tower (2)
2525Walsall (2)
2400Barnsley (2)
1875Gainsborough Trinity (2)
1675Burslem Port Vale (2)
1650Loughborough (2)
1650Luton (2)
1500Burton Swifts (2)

This series of features covers Manchester City in the opening years of the twentieth century. Why not subscribe and read every feature?

Tomorrow there’ll be a subscriber article on the 1900-01 season in a similar style to those recently posted on the 1890s. Here’s an 1800 article below on Manchester City in the final months of 1899:

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More on the 1900s tomorrow. Why not subscribe and read this and all the other subscriber features?

The 1890s: 1898-99 Attendances

The series of features on the 1890s continues today with a simple look at the average attendances of league clubs. I’m publishing the statistics here for season 1898-99 when Manchester City was a Second Division club – but look where they are in the attendance table! These figures are estimated based on newspaper reports of the period but are widely accepted as a good indication of support enjoyed at each club.

Glossop North End 1898

In the following table every team is in Division One unless (2) appears after their name. This indicates they were a Second Division club that season. Where two teams have the same average then these have been listed in alphabetic order.

1897-9 Average Attendances

AverageTeam
20675Aston Villa
18150Newcastle
14525Everton
13975Liverpool
12300Sunderland
10675Notts County
10000Manchester City (2)
9850Sheff Utd
9400Blackburn Rovers
8875Sheff Wed
8850Nottm Forest
8025Stoke
7775Newton Heath (2)
7550Wolves
7450Leicester Fosse (2)
7325Bolton
7225Derby
6125Burnley
6025Preston
5775Small Heath (2)
5200WBA
4600Burslem Port Vale (2)
4525Bury
4475Woolwich Arsenal (2)
3350New Brighton Tower (2)
3325Grimsby (2)
3000Lincoln (2)
2875Walsall (2)
2775Luton (2)
2750Glossop (2)
2400Barnsley (2)
2375Burton Swifts (2)
2275Gainsborough Trinity (2)
1900Loughborough (2)
1500Blackpool (2)
900Darwen (2)

This series of features covers the final years of Ardwick, the birth of Manchester City and the Club’s first national success. Why not subscribe and read every feature? Here’s a link to the story of the 1898-99 season:

Here’s an 1800 article below on Manchester City in the final months of 1899:

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Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) or sign up a year at a time for the discounted annual fee of £20. This gives access to everything on the site, including PDFs of 3 of my books and various other articles, interviews and audio material. Each subscriber has access to all content posted during their subscription period too. Why not sign up for a month and see what you think?

More features tomorrow. Why not subscribe and read this and all the other subscriber features?