Top Two Divisions Attendances and Table From 40 Years Ago!

Last week I posted the top flight attendances for this last week forty years ago and this led to a number of comments/questions and so to answer some of those I’ve now posted the top two divisions attendances together with the two League tables AND the end of season average attendances. People asked for clarity on how the figures compared to the second tier and whether League position played its part in affecting crowds. As a reminder here’s last week’s attendances…

And here’s this week’s (published 24 November 1985) and the League table too.

Obviously, these are only snapshots from that season but to add a bit more context here are the end of season averages here are the top 46 best supported clubs in order that season (hopefully it might make those who sing songs like ‘Where Were You?’ think about the crowds at their own clubs first):

A few notable League positions for those who do sing ‘Where Were You?’… The top eight clubs in the League were: Liverpool (champions), Everton, West Ham, Man Utd, Sheff Wed, Chelsea, Arsenal and Forest. Manchester City (who were 4th best supported club) were 15th (only 4 points above relegation zone), Spurs were tenth, Newcastle 11th and Aston Villa 16th.

In the Second Division best supported club Sunderland were 18th (avoiding relegation by 4 points); the top four were Norwich, Charlton, Wimbledon and Portsmouth.

If you’d like to know more about Manchester City at this time, here’s a 2,500 word subscriber feature on the 1985-86 season. Enjoy!

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Attendances 40 Years Ago!

These two results tables for top flight football in November 1985 make interesting reading. I’ve included the details published today (17 November, for games played the previous day) in 1985 and also the week after’s details too. This gives an idea of what the top clubs were attracting back then. Notice West Ham’s game attracted more at home than Arsenal’s and that Liverpool were over 26,000 less than Manchester United. Arsenal’s crowd was 6,000 less than struggling Manchester City and Tottenham attracted more than Arsenal too. Reigning League champions Everton were some way ahead of the London clubs and only about 600 behind Liverpool. Obviously, these are only snapshots from two weekends but hopefully it might make those who sing songs like ‘Where Were You?’ think about the crowds at their own clubs first.

the Marwood scoring for Sheffield Wednesday was of course Brian Marwood who went on to play a key part in Manchester City’s modern return to glory. If you’d like to know more about Manchester City at this time, here’s a 2,500 word subscriber feature on the 1985-86 season. Enjoy!

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The 1930s: 1935-1936 Ten Thousand Pounds

My series on Manchester City in the 1930s continues today with a subscriber article on the 1935-36 season. If you subscribe (see below) I hope you enjoy it. If you don’t subscribe then why not try it for a month (£3 per month or sign up for a year at a discounted £20 per year)?

Here’s the article:

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Haaland Five v Luton

On this day (27 February) in 2024 Erling Haaland scored five against Luton Town in the FA Cup. On a night when memories of Denis Law scoring six in the FA Cup against Luton (and then getting them all wiped from the records as the game was abandoned) it was a wonderful performance, coming in Manchester City’s 6-2 victory.

When asked about the goals afterwards City manager Pep Guardiola discussed both Haaland’s scoring and the influence of Kevin De Bruyne too: ‘Erling is on fire and Kevin… the connection was perfect… Kevin needs players like Erling and Erling needs players like Kevin. Erling needs a guy with the vision, the quality, the generosity. Kevin is the less selfish player in front of goal. Kevin needs the movement from Erling. We know how aggressive they are.’

By this time De Bruyne had made nine assists in his previous five FA Cup games for De Bruyne. Surprisingly, one more than he managed in his first 23 appearances for City in the competition but he’d been waiting for a player like Haaland to come along for some time. De Bruyne was making similar moves and passes but the end product had not been there consistently prior to Haaland’s arrival.

Talking of De Bruyne, Haaland commented: ‘Kevin De Bruyne is massive. He is doing what he is best at. It’s a pleasure playing with him. We know what we both want from each other. It clicks well. He is a smart player and I like to play with him.’

Haaland became the 3rd Manchester City player to score 5 in a men’s FA Cup (and it still stands) game. Earlier players who achieved this feat are Frank Roberts & Bobby Marshall. Here’s Roberts’ game (there’s film of that match in 1926 via the link):

Of course Haaland had scored five before:

https://gjfootballarchive.com/?p=8883

For Haaland there were a few records/points to note:

  • He became the first player to score five or more in the FA Cup (1st round onwards) since Duane Darby scored 6 for Hull v Whitby in 1996-97.
  • He was the first to score five or more for a top-flight club in the FA Cup since George Best scored 6 for United v Northampton in 1970.
  • This was the second time Haaland has scored five goals in a game in his senior career, previously doing so for City against RB Leipzig in the Champions League in March 2023.
  • Since his debut for City in July 2022, Haaland had scored 79 goals in 83 games in all comps, 30 more than any other Premier League player in the that time (Salah 49) after that Luton game.
  • He became the first to score five against Luton for City since Denis Law in 1961 when Law scored 6 but all were wiped from the records as the game was abandoned. See:

The 1960s: Law’s Expunged Six! 

On this day (28 January) in 1961 Denis Law’s six goals against Luton in the FAC were wiped from the records when the game was abandoned due to waterlogged pitch.  Manchester City were winning 6-2, and lost the replay 3-1 (Law scored City’s consolation). If you want to know more about the 1960-61 season then you can read the following 1200 word article. It’s a subscriber piece and if you want to read it (plus all other articles on the site) then please subscribe (see below).

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Denis Law at City

Denis Law had such a wonderful footballing career, with so many periods deserving focus. Inevitably – and rightly – many will focus on his exploits with Manchester United and Scotland. Following his death I’d like to add to the tributes out there by highlighting a couple of periods of his career that may be being overlooked. It’s totally understandable, but today I’d like to highlight his Manchester City career. A career that saw him become a City legend. Not many manage to become idolised at both City and United in equal measure (Meredith & Kidd are the other prominent two I can think of) but Law managed it.

He was signed by City in March 1960 from Huddersfield Town for a record figure of £55,000 – £10,000 more than the previous British transfer record.  It was a bold move by Les McDowall but was clear proof that City were still a force to be reckoned with, particularly as they had managed to fight off the likes of Arsenal to sign the 20 year old.

Denis Law signs for City from Huddersfield

Law was a lethal finisher, and a genuine crowd pleaser.  His first goal for the Blues came during his debut match at Leeds United on 19th March 1960, although City were defeated by the odd goal in seven.  His second League game brought another goal as West Ham were defeated 3-1 at Maine Road on 30th March.  He ended the season with 7 appearances.

The following season he was top scorer with 19 League goals – 1 more than Joe Hayes – and again made the headlines with an amazing goalscoring feat in an abandoned cup tie.  On 28th January City were defeating Luton 6-2 with Law scoring all City’s goals, when the match was abandoned.  In the replay, Law again scored but this time City were defeated 3-1 in conditions which Law himself believed were worse than the original game.

In addition to his performances for City, Law was making a name for himself with his country.  He made 5 international appearances during his first two seasons at Maine Road, and was an obvious choice for his beloved Scotland. 

All the media interest which understandably focused on Law helped to make him known throughout the footballing world and, with City still struggling to find consistency during the early sixties, it was perhaps inevitable that he would move on.  In the end he was transferred to Italian side Torino for another record.  This time he became Britain’s first £100,000 footballer when the Italians paid City £110,000 for his signature in July 1961.

After a little over a year in Italy, Law returned to Manchester.  This time to help United.  In his first season there he helped the Reds avoid relegation, but regrettably City suffered as a consequence.  While at Old Trafford, Law found the success that had not seemed possible at Maine Road.

In July 1973 after becoming a legend with the Reds – please go and read everything you can about his career at Old Trafford – he was given a free transfer.  City manager Johnny Hart quickly made arrangements to sign the player, and on his second City debut he again scored (twice) as Birmingham were defeated 3-1.  Of the City side he joined in 1973 only Alan Oakes remained from his final City game in 1961, and the Blues were in an entirely different position.

The late sixties and early seventies had seen City achieve phenomenal success and eclipse Law’s United side, and so rather than join a poor, struggling side, law was now with a team of entertainers capable of tremendous success.  He had also joined a team renowned for its unpredictability!

Johnny Hart was replaced by disciplinarian Ron Saunders as manager, and the entire mood of the club changed.  Saunders seemed to be at odds with many of the club’s more senior professionals and his handling of the stars was often attacked.  For a while there were rumours of player power, especially when City started plummeting down the table.  Inevitably, Saunders was sacked and his replacement, Tony Book, managed to change the approach.  On the final day of the season, it was as a member of Book’s side that Law scored his final – and most memorable – League goal.

It was scored with his last kick in League football, and he often said it was the worst he had ever felt after scoring a goal. It wasn’t his last competitive goal in football or even for City – people often incorrectly claim it was but he played on into the 1974-75 season, scoring for City in a competitive game at the start of that season.

A page from Manchester A Football History by Gary James

City fans usually remember Denis Law more for that particular goal than for any other moment in his City career.  That goal was widely held responsible at the time of ‘sending Manchester United into the Second Division’.  In actual fact, the goal was irrelevant as United would have gone down in any case, but it has become a landmark goal and inevitably keeps the name of Law in the minds of Blues fans everywhere.  Law’s City career deserves to be remembered for much more.

Less than two months earlier he made his final appearance at Wembley as a member of City’s League Cup final team.  That game ended in a 2-1 defeat, but then it did take place during Ron Saunders’ period as manager.  Had the atmosphere of the club changed prior to Wembley then it’s possible Law’s illustrious career would have ended with a League Cup winners’ medal.

1974 League Cup final Tommy Booth, Francis Lee, Frank Munro, Denis Law.

Denis Law only managed three seasons with City in total, but in each of those seasons he did enough to make the headlines and become a member of City’s hall of fame.  During the mid 1970s The King’s Head pub at Crown Point, Denton became a shrine to football and its sign depicted “The King” Denis Law.  Although the nickname was awarded to him at Old Trafford, the pub sign depicted him in a City shirt – the team that first brought him to Manchester.  It should never be forgotten that Law is a hero to both Blues and Reds.  

The 1960s: 1960-1961 More Arrivals 

Continuing the series of features on the 1960s, here’s a subscriber article on Manchester City during the 1960-61 season. If you’d like to read this 1200 word article, plus all other articles on the site, then please subscribe (see below).

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Luton 1 Manchester City 2

On this day (10 December) in 2023 Manchester City defeated Luton Town 2-1 with goals from Bernardo Silva and Jack Grealish. You can watch highlights here:

https://www.mancity.com/citytv/mens/luton-town-manchester-city-extended-highlights-63837836

Goalless v Wimbledon

Manager Peter Reid (pictured) opened his Manchester City programme notes for the Wimbledon game on this day (30 November) in 1991 with a realistic view of City’s season to date:  “We are nearly halfway through the season and I think it’s fair to say we’ve given it a right good go so far.  The League table doesn’t lie and we are in the last 16 in the Rumbelows League Cup.  You can’t argue with that.  But you won’t hear any talk of championships or winning trophies from anyone at Maine Road.”

The previous game had seen the Blues draw 2-2 at Luton and consolidate their position in the table.  City were actually third, 6 points behind leaders Leeds United, but the Luton game had started badly with the Blues giving away a sloppy goal. The gritty nature of Reid’s side shone through and a header from captain Curle and a strike from Quinn ensured the point.  Sadly, late on Steve Redmond was sent off for a second bookable offence.   

Unfortunately the Wimbledon game ended goalless at Maine Road and City started to lose their way a little in the title race, but at least they were still in with a shout.   

Result

30 Nov 1991 Wimbledon (H) 0-0, Attendance 22,429

if you’d like to know more on the 1991-92 season when the Blues finished 5th for the second season running, have a read of this 2,100 word article on that season:

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This series of articles and features will run throughout March with indepth articles some days and smaller ‘on this day’ style posts on others. There will be flashbacks to great games, players and more. Every day in March will offer something to enjoy.

Subscribers will get access to everything, while some on this day material will be free for all to view.

If you want to know more on this incredible decade for Manchester City Football Club then why not subscribe and read it all? If you’d like to know more about subscribing then see:

The 1900s: 1899-1900 Attendances

The series of features on the 1900s starts today with a simple look at the average attendances of league clubs. I’m publishing the statistics here for season 1899-1900 when Manchester City was a First Division club for the first time. They were the third best supported club – the highest position either Manchester team had enjoyed up to that point. In fact City had been the best supported club for the opening months of the season as the heading photo shows (that’s from 20 January 1900).

All these figures are estimated based on newspaper reports of the period but are widely accepted as a good indication of support enjoyed at each club.

Manchester City with the Second Division Shield, 1899

In the following table every team is in Division One unless (2) appears after their name. This indicates they were a Second Division club that season. Where two teams have the same average then these have been listed in alphabetic order.

1899-1900 Average Attendances

AverageTeam
19825Aston Villa
16725Newcastle
16000Manchester City
12925Everton
11325Liverpool
11175Sheff Utd
10475Sunderland
8950Notts County
8125Derby
7875Nottm Forest
7700Stoke
7150Sheff Wed (2)
6575Wolves
6475Blackburn
6250Leicester Fosse (2)
6225Newton Heath (2)
6175WBA
5925Burnley
5925Middlesbrough (2)
5775Bury
5050Small Heath (2)
4825Preston
4800Bolton (2)
4125Woolwich Arsenal (2)
4000Glossop
3775Grimsby (2)
3775Lincoln (2)
2950Chesterfield (2)
2875New Brighton Tower (2)
2525Walsall (2)
2400Barnsley (2)
1875Gainsborough Trinity (2)
1675Burslem Port Vale (2)
1650Loughborough (2)
1650Luton (2)
1500Burton Swifts (2)

This series of features covers Manchester City in the opening years of the twentieth century. Why not subscribe and read every feature?

Tomorrow there’ll be a subscriber article on the 1900-01 season in a similar style to those recently posted on the 1890s. Here’s an 1800 article below on Manchester City in the final months of 1899:

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More on the 1900s tomorrow. Why not subscribe and read this and all the other subscriber features?