Here’s an image I’ve rediscovered in my collection of Manchester City manager Billy McNeill and his assistant Jimmy Frizzell. McNeill was City boss from 1983 until 1986 and was followed by Frizzell, who then remained at Maine Road in one capacity or another for many, many years. I liked Billy McNeill but was devastated when he chose to leave City for Aston Villa in 1986. Years later when I interviewed him he told me it had been a big mistake leaving Maine Road. He was right! Both City and Villa were relegated at the end of the 1986-87 season and I can’t help thinking Billy would have found success at City had he stayed.
Category Archives: 1983-84
The First MCFC 10K Run 1984
I’m doing some clearing out of my collection and keep rediscovering some random Manchester football memorabilia. I’ll post some images of them on here from time to time. Today here’s an image of my medal, number and related material from the first City 10K run. It took place on 29 April 1984 (the next one was to be staged on 7 October 1984) and I decided to take part. I won’t tell everybody my time though!
Watch out for more odd items from my collection over the coming weeks.
Post-Match Press Conference 1980s Style
When Billy McNeill joined Manchester City in 1983 he commented on how surprised he was at the number of post-match media reporters there were at games. Apparently, the volume was much higher than he’d expected and similar comments were expressed three years later when Alex Ferguson experienced his first press conferences at Old Trafford. Back in the 70s and 80s no matter what division the Manchester clubs were in (City were second tier in 1983) there was considerable media interest. Back then there was a strong Manchester newspaper scene with northern issues of most national newspapers produced in the city, often filling their sports pages with the latest from City and United.
This photo shows Billy in the centre of a post match press conference. I wonder how today’s managers would react to this style of meeting with the journalists. Nowadays similar press conferences appear to be organised more formally. Anybody recognise the journalists?
You can read more from Billy McNeill’s early days at City in the following 2,500 article on the 1983-84. It’s called ‘Fish Supper’ because manager Billy McNeill said City were so skint at the time that they could hardly buy a fish supper! Sadly, the purchases were often funded out of the money City had received for their talented young defender Tommy Caton who joined Arsenal.
Subscribers can read a 2,500 word feature on the 1983-84 season below. Enjoy!
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If you missed the season features on the 1980s then start here:
The 1980s: 1980-1981 Gow, Hutchison & McDonald
The 1980s: Swansea 0 Manchester City 2
Here’s film from this day (7 April) in 1984 when Manchester City won away at Swansea. The score was 2-0 with goals from Steve Kinsey and Derek Parlane. Enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R8xnhDgbIk
You can read more from this season in the following 2,500 article on the 1983-84. It’s called ‘Fish Supper’ because manager Billy McNeill said City were so skint at the time that they could hardly buy a fish supper! Sadly, the purchases were often funded out of the money City had received for their talented young defender Tommy Caton who joined Arsenal.
Subscribers can read a 2,500 word feature on the 1983-84 season below. Enjoy!
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Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) or there’s a special annual rate of £20 below which gives access to everything posted since December 2020 and works out much cheaper.
If you’d like to know more about subscribing then see:
If you missed the season features on the 1980s then start here:
The 1980s: 1980-1981 Gow, Hutchison & McDonald
The 1980s: David Johnson
After a glittering career with Preston, Everton and Liverpool, striker David Johnson joined Manchester City on this day (21 March) in 1984. Johnson scored on his City debut – an 83rd minute equaliser v Cardiff in a game the Blues went on to win 2-1 (Image is of that goal). Unfortunately, despite a reputation as a lethal striker – and hard evidence of achievement – Johnson’s time at Maine Road was not particularly successful. After one goal in four (plus two as substitute) games Johnson moved to play soccer in North America in May 1984.
Johnson died in November 2022 and the following piece was written by Samuel Meade and published in the Mirror:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/grame-souness-david-johnson-tribute-28569782
You can read an article on the entire 1983-84 season if you subscribe (see below):
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Newcastle v Manchester City: The Story So Far
City v Newcastle is one of the most enduring fixtures in English football. There have been cup finals, title deciders, dramatic games, shared heroes and so much more. The two clubs first met in the League in October 1893 (Ardwick/MCFC’s 2nd season in the League) and City’s record is:
| Competition | Played | Won | Drawn | Lost |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| League | 174 | 71 | 38 | 65 |
| FA Cup | 12 | 4 | 2 | 6 |
| League Cup | 6 | 3 | 1 | 2 |
| European | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
There have been lots of significant games in the League, FA Cup and League Cup. A League Cup final in 1976 saw them meet at Wembley when Peter Barnes and Dennis Tueart both scoring for the Blues.
Anyone remember being at Maine Road on the day City played away against Newcastle at Maine Road? That was in 1975. See:
101 years ago there was the last meeting at City’s famous old Hyde Road ground:
In 2012 a Newcastle v City game was crucial in the Blues’ title charge:
Elano’s wonder goal in 2007:
In 2021-22 there was a memorable City victory:
Most Blues of my age and above will remember where they were when our King returned to action on Boxing Day 1977. Here’s an interview I did with him a few years back when we talked about that special day:
When I was a teenager there was a second tier meeting that attracted a significant crowd for the period:
My Dad’s generation will remember the 1955 FA Cup final:
During 1956-57 there was a ‘game of the season’ in the FA Cup between the clubs:
My grandad’s generation would’ve remembered Billy Meredith’s last game:
Who remembers the title decider at Newcastle? Details:
There was a really odd thing a while back where a Newcastle paper claimed that their local team had first worn bar scarves at games. A few simple searches soon proved there were much earlier bar scarfs:
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DonateWhere Were You?
Fairly early on in the game between Manchester City and Arsenal the fans of the London club started to sing the old ‘Where were you when you were…’ chant. You’d think they’d know because often City were attracting better crowds than Arsenal. Let’s look at 1982-83 when I experienced my first relegation as a City fan. Back then City were the 4th best supported club (26,789) and Arsenal were 6th (24,153) – see the average attendance table above. City finished in a relegation position and Arsenal were 10th.
The following season Arsenal did attract a better average than City but they were the 5th best supported club in the entire 4 divisions and City were the 6th. In terms of League position Arsenal were 6th and City were 4th in Division Two.
We could talk about the late 1990s but neither club had a ground that could satisfy the demand to see them, so a sell out Maine Road in 1998-99 for third tier City has to compare with a sell out Highbury for title challenging Arsenal.
Since then stadium size has dictated average support but if we go back to earlier decades and assume that Arsenal’s ‘Where were you when you were sh*t’ refers to City heading towards relegation or being out of the top flight then City’s record is impressive overall. In 1965-66 (the last 2nd division season before the 1980s) City averaged 27,739 (10th best in entire League) while First Division Arsenal were the 9th best supported club on 29,036.
We can jump back even further. In the 1920s Arsenal were perceived as a popular club and in 1925-26 they averaged 31,471 – the 3rd best in the League. Where were City? Oh, City who were relegated that season were the 2nd best supported team with an average of almost 32,000. Not much more than Arsenal but the Gunners were 2nd in the League and City were relegated!
The year after Second Division City were the 3rd best supported club and top flight Arsenal were 4th!
The year after that (1927-28) Second Division City were the best supported club in the entire League with 37,468. Where were top flight Arsenal? 7th best supported with 27,434.
It’s all a nonsense but if Arsenal fans, or any other team, want to sing songs like this then it would help if they knew their own history of support.
Second Tier Crowd to Rival Leaders Liverpool?
Here’s another attendance flashback piece. This is from February 1984 when Second Division Manchester City were reported as only being a few thousand behind League leaders Liverpool. The article praised City fans of course but it also highlighted the support Newcastle were also getting in the second tier of English football at the time.
In recent years it has become fashionable to knock fans when stadia are not quite full but in the past we tended to praise and recognise those that continued to be loyal. With the cost of football now considerably higher than it was back in the 1980s then I think it’s only fair that we start to go back to recognising the dedication and loyalty of fans. It is so frustrating when modern day fans (often who don’t pay to attend games) or even journalists/commentators/former players on TV (again, often who do not pay to attend games) criticise the supporters of any club if they see a seat or so empty. If only they realised the efforts fans go to to attend games at times usually arranged for the media’s benefit and not ours.
Parking issues, money concerns, travel gridlock, strikes, weather, travel, work… a whole host of things get in the way and it takes dedication to attend any game.
Lots more on this website about attendances. If you want to know crowd comparisons for the decade before 1983-84 season then this is well worth reading. It may surprise fans of some clubs:
If you enjoy all the free material on my website and would like to support my research and keep this website going (but don’t want to subscribe) then why not make a one-time donation (or buy me a coffee). All support for my research is valued and welcome. It allows me to keep some free material available for all. Thanks.
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DonateThe 1980s: 41,862 in 2nd Tier!
Continuing the series of articles covering Manchester City in the 1980s, here’s a reminder of a game played on this day (10 December) in 1983 when a crowd of 41,862 attended Maine Road for a game with Sheffield Wednesday. At the time this was perceived as a possible promotion showdown for two of Division Two’s biggest clubs. Ultimately, City lost their way and this game actually ended in a 2-1 defeat. City’s goal was scored by Kevin Bond and future Blue Imre Varadi netted both for Wednesday.
If you want to find out more about this season then why not subscribe and read my 2,500 article on the 1983-84 titled ‘Fish Supper’ (because manager Billy McNeill said City were so skint at the time that they could hardly buy a fish supper). Enjoy!
Subscribe to get access – Monthly
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) to access everything posted since 1 October 2022 or there’s a special annual rate below which gives greater access and works out much cheaper.
Subscribe to get access – Annual
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (above) or £20 a year (here) to access everything posted since the site was created in December 2020. This special rate works out about £1.67 a week and gives access to everything posted, including PDFs of 3 of my books.
If you’d like to know more about subscribing then see:
Tomorrow’s feature is on the 1984-85 season. If you missed the earlier features then start here:
The 1980s: 1980-1981 Gow, Hutchison & McDonald
The 1980s: Dalziel Signs for ‘MacCity’
Continuing the series of articles covering Manchester City in the 1980s, here’s a brief newspaper cutting announcing that City had just signed Gordon Dalziel. The newspaper was published on this day (30 November) in 1983. The reference to MacCity links to the idea that Manager Billy McNeill and his assistant, fellow Scot Jimmy Frizzell, were buying Scottish players.
There’s a lot of truth in this and McNeill explained about it at various times over the years. My 2,500 article on the 1983-84 is titled ‘Fish Supper’ because McNeill said City were so skint at the time that they could hardly buy a fish supper. Sadly, the purchases were often funded out of the money City had received for their talented young defender Tommy Caton who joined Arsenal.
Subscribers can read a 2,500 word feature on the 1983-84 season below. Enjoy!
Subscribe to get access – Monthly
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) to access everything posted since 1 October 2022 or there’s a special annual rate below which gives greater access and works out much cheaper.
Subscribe to get access – Annual
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (above) or £20 a year (here) to access everything posted since the site was created in December 2020. This special rate works out about £1.67 a week and gives access to everything posted, including PDFs of 3 of my books.
If you’d like to know more about subscribing then see:
Tomorrow’s feature is on the 1984-85 season. If you missed the earlier features then start here:
The 1980s: 1980-1981 Gow, Hutchison & McDonald
Gary James' Football Archive 