Tag Archives: Liverpool

The 1890s: 1895-1896 Test Match Special

The series of features on Manchester City in the 1890s continues today with a 1800 word article on Manchester City in 1895-96. An interesting season and one which started to pave the way for everything that followed while reminding those who ran the club that fans’ feelings always had to be considered!

This series covers the final years of Ardwick, the birth of Manchester City and the Club’s first national success.

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Preston and City Great: The Death Of Jimmy Ross

One of the earliest stars of League Football died this month (12th June) in 1902. Jimmy Ross, who was a major figure for almost three seasons with Manchester City and had competed in every season of League football since the League was established in 1888, died with an illness described as “an acute skin disease and a raging fever.”

Ross was one of the Preston ‘Invincibles’ in 1888-89 and also scored 7 (sometimes reported as 8) against Hyde in the famous FA Cup record breaking game (read more on that game here: https://gjfootballarchive.com/2021/02/22/hyde-v-preston-a-record-breaking-day/ ).

At the time of his death Ross was a Manchester City player. His last first team appearance was appropriately against Preston North End in the First Round of the F.A. Cup in January 1902.  

City helped his mother, whom he was looking after at the time of his death, financially.  They also arranged the funeral and he was buried at Southern Cemetery (according to newspaper reports of the time he was buried in a grave that contained another City player – Bride – who had died a couple of years earlier). Several City players/personalities carried the coffin, including Billy Meredith.

More can be read on Ross’ life here:

The Great Jimmy Ross

European Span of Success 2024

Each year, following the end of the UEFA football season I update the UEFA European Span of Success table. What is this? It’s a list of those clubs who have won two or more major UEFA tournaments showing the span between their first UEFA success and their most recent. The list may surprise some who think that football is all about those perceived as European giants with ‘history’.

The table hasn’t really changed much from last year as Real Madrid were Champions League winners. Atalanta, who won the Europa League, and Olympiacos (Conference winners) have only won one major European trophy and so they do not yet make it on to the list of multiple winners:

European Span of success 2024

The ‘history’ ‘no history’ thing really irritates me. All clubs have history and even when that’s recognised some still go on about history as if it started in 1992, 1999 or 2008 etc. depending on whether your club was successful or your rivals were failing. The two highest placed English teams are West Ham and Manchester City, who both found major European success before some of those clubs recognised today as Europe’s elite.

Obviously, this table does not show the number of major trophies won, but it does give an indication of trophy winning longevity for those who obsess on ‘my cup’s bigger than yours’ and similar debates. Personally, I think we should all be proud of our club’s achievements and not worry about what a rival has won.

West Ham have the second longest span of all Europe’s clubs and City have the fourth equal. Nice work Hammers and Blues!

The above table includes the four major UEFA tournaments: European Cup/Champions League; European Cup Winner’s Cup; UEFA Cup/Europa League & the Europa Conference League. It does not include non-UEFA tournaments such as the Mitropa Cup and Fairs Cup. Nor does it include the Intertoto Cup or similar.

I’m sure some will say but why aren’t the Mitropa or Fairs Cups in there? It’s a good point but these were not UEFA tournaments, though I recognise that the Mitropa Cup had some significant clubs competing in it. It was predominantly an East European competition and participants were not spread over the entire continent.

With the Fairs Cup… It is true that this was later transformed into the UEFA Cup and I have included all UEFA Cup finals in my analysis. But the Fairs Cup had an odd series of entry rules at times. Cities, rather than clubs, often entered with Barcelona beating London in one final for example. It was set up as a friendly type of competition with cities that had staged trade fairs playing each other. As time wore on entry came via the League Cup or League position in England, which added significance to it. But two teams from the same city were not allowed to participate, which meant that teams finishing way down the table could be (and were) included if those above them were multiple clubs from the same city.

In 1970 Manchester City’s Mike Doyle joked that by winning the League Cup he was satisfying his aim of ‘keeping United out of Europe’ (he joked about creating car stickers with that slogan!) because it appeared at that time that United’s only chance of Europe had gone with City’s qualification for the Fairs Cup.

1970 ECWC

City went on to win the ECWC that season, meaning that Fairs Cup place was opened up to League position, but United had finished lower down the table anyway and qualified for the Watney Cup instead. Actually, the Watney Cup is one worth talking about, but I’ll save that for another day. In 1970 Fourth placed Derby County qualified for the Watney Cup, while 5th to 7th (Liverpool, Coventry and Newcastle) all got a Fairs Cup place, alongside 12th placed Arsenal (Fairs Cup winners). I’ve not investigated this fully but it does seem odd that the Watney Cup took precedence over the Fairs Cup.

Arsenal’s 1970 Fairs Cup success was their first European trophy but is not included in the span, neither are those Fairs Cup wins of Barcelona. However, as quite a few Arsenal fans seemed to get a bit upset when the table was posted last year I’ve decided to include the Fairs Cup in the following version of the table. So this table is the winners of the main UEFA competitions I mentioned earlier plus the Fairs Cup with its odd rules:

European Span of success 2024 including Fairs Cup

Hopefully, those Arsenal fans who were somewhat upset last year will now be happy. Note that West Ham have now been overtaken by Roma and that Barcelona are now above Manchester City, Bayern & Atletico Madrid. Both ‘Rome’ and ‘Barcelona’ won the Fairs Cup when it was city based and not club based.

Arsenal are now 18th in this combined table, behind their fellow English clubs West Ham, City, Chelsea, United and Liverpool.

As an example of the odd qualification rules in place for the Fairs Cup at times it’s worth looking at the 1969 qualification via the English League system.

In 1969 champions Leeds entered the European Cup. The ECWC place went to FA Cup winners Manchester City and the Fairs Cup places went to: Arsenal (4th), Southampton (7th) and Newcastle (9th). Swindon had won the League Cup, beating Arsenal in the final, but the Fairs Cup organisers wouldn’t allow them to participate as they were not a top flight club! This adds to the reason the competition is usually excluded. It is certainly not a UEFA competition in any case.

Similarly, Everton (3rd), Chelsea (5th), Spurs (6th) and West Ham (8th) who all finished above Newcastle were denied because of the rule that only one club from each city be allowed. So Liverpool and Arsenal’s inclusion meant their rivals stood less chance of winning the trophy than Newcastle simply because there were multiple clubs in their cities.

That rule does make me wonder what would have happened if both Manchester clubs had qualified for the competition as City are within the city of Manchester boundaries and United are not. Would the two clubs have challenged any decision not to include one of them based on the age old argument of Manchester’s boundaries?

Maybe I’ll post more on the odd rules of football competitions and tell the story of some of those long forgotten competitions.

If you’re interested in the wider span of success for English clubs (listing those who have the longest span between their first trophy and most recent, not simply European trophies) then take a look at this (Manchester City are second):

The Span of Success: Updated for 2024

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The Span of Success: Updated for 2024

As usual, once the domestic season ends I update the table showing the English clubs’ span of success – i.e. the number of years between a club’s first major success (FA Cup, League, League Cup, European trophy) and their most recent. There’s actually not much difference between last year’s final table and this:

Okay, the span of success does not show how many trophies each club has won or how frequently that club has experienced great eras of success, but it does demonstrate how wrong those people are who believe certain clubs were unsuccessful until recent years, or those who think certain clubs have always been giants. The column on first major success helps to show when some clubs first became trophy-winning significant (often after transformational investment too!).

There’s not much difference between 2023 and 2024 – numbers have changed but not positions. In 2023 West Ham proved that if you’re a club that hasn’t won a major trophy for a while putting your focus on achieving trophy success ahead of the odd Premier League position can bring significant reward. In future decades no one will remember who finished seventh, tenth or fifteenth but they will remember the trophies. Here’s last year’s table for comparison purposes:

I know clubs focus on their financials but winning a trophy has longevity, gaining the odd Premier League place provides a bit of extra cash now but no long term kudos. Winning a trophy attracts new fans and brings money-spinning opportunities too.

If I was a supporter of any of the major clubs who have not found significant success in recent decades then I would absolutely want my team to go for whichever cup competition seems the most likely to win. That’s what I always wanted from City before they were able to compete for the League again. Winning the FA Cup in 2011 helped everything that followed happen – it gave confidence and a trophy winning mentality.

While you’re here why not take a look at the wide range of articles available on this site? Such as last summer’s 100 day series of features on Maine Road:

Maine Road 100 – Day 10
Maine Road 100 – Day 3
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Howard White and a Liverpool Controversial Game

On this day (25 May) in 1971 defender Howard White signed professional forms for Manchester City.  White had a very unlucky career at Maine Road.  He had alread made his debut on 24 April 1971 in a controversial League game with Liverpool. 

Basically, Liverpool were enjoying a busy, competitive season and decided to rest several key players.  This was against League rules and as City had also fielded a side that seemed to be relatively inexperienced, the League investigated. 

The game ended 2-2 and the League eventually fined Liverpool for fielding a weakened side, but judged that City had managed to field their strongest side considering injuries etc.  For White the game was a low point as he suffered a broken ankle shortly before half time and was never again able to make a first team appearance.     

Four-in-a-Row: An Incredible Achievement

I’ve left it a few days to let it all sink in but ‘wow!’ What an achievement for Manchester City! Never in the near 140 years of League football has any club achieved such a remarkable feat of four successive titles. This record, like the domestic treble, will last for an eternity with future generations aware of how brilliant these players and this manager was.

So for today’s piece I thought I’d look back at the successive titles record and see how that has developed. This demonstrates what a truly remarkable achievement this has been, but it also adds to the debate about whether teams have dominated particular eras or not. We’re often told that City’s era of dominance is new and no team has ever done this before – well no team has ever won 4 consecutive titles that’s for certain – but we’re also told that other clubs, Liverpool, Arsenal and United for example, have had greater periods of dominance (though that’s acceptable and City’s is not – that’s odd in itself!). It seems your view depends on which team you support. For neutrals and those prepared to explore the facts, the following can help with all of this assessment.

Record 2 in a row progression

Preston won the first two League titles in 1888-89 and 1889-90 (and were runners up in the three seasons that followed).

Sunderland equalled the record in 1891-92 and 1892-93 (and were runners up in 1893-94 6 points behind Villa) before winning it again in 1894-95

Aston Villa matched the 2-in-a-row twice in 1895-96 & 1896-97 and 1898-99 & 1899-1900. They actually won 5 out of 7.

Wednesday were next winning 2-in-a-row 1902-03 & 1903-04 (pipping FA Cup winners City to the title).

Liverpool were next with successes in 1921-22 & 1922-23

After Liverpool’s 2-in-a-row came a new record:

Record 3 in a row progression

Huddersfield Town were the first to win three successive title. Their successes came between 1923 and 1926 BUT they also were runners-up in 1926-27 & 1927-28 (missing it by 2 points).

Arsenal achieved the feat of 3-in-a-row between 1932 and 1935. The gunners had won the title in 1931 and were runners up in 1932 (missing it by only 2 points – 1 win), so came close to five.

Liverpool matched the 3-in-row between 1981 and 1984 but they’d come close to 5-in-a-row between 1975 and 1980 when they won the League in 1976, 1977, 1979 and 1980 and were second in 1978. In total Liverpool won 7 out of 9 between 1975 and 1983 (8 out of 11 too).

Manchester United were the next to achieve 3-in-a-row between 1998 and 2001. They had also won 7 out of 9 (1992 to 2001) and 8 out of 11. The years they managed 7 out of 9 saw them finish as runners up in the other two seasons, missing it by only 1 point in both 1994-95 and 1997-98. Rightly, this was heralded as a remarkable achievement.

Manchester United matched their own 3-in-a-row with another between 2006 and 2009. They also finished as either champions or runners up in the following four seasons. This meant that between 1992 and 2009 United had won 11 out of 17 titles and finished second in a further three.

Record 4 in a row setting

Manchester City are the only team to win 4-in-a-row English League titles. This remarkable feat has been achieved with title successes in 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23 and 2023-24. City also won consecutive League titles in 2018 and 2019 and were runners up in 2020. This means City have won 6 out of 7 Premier Leagues.

There have been a lot of people out there claiming that this year’s League title was a ‘foregone conclusion’ and that it was ‘boring’. As I pointed out last week that all depends on whether things become boring once your own team are unable to challenge, but for many neutrals it’s about title races going to the final day or ones that are close.

Did you know that only 10 of the Premier League’s 32 seasons have finished with 3 points or less separating the top two teams? In exactly 50% of those seasons Manchester City were the champions – more than any other club! Also, if you’re the kind of person who believes City are the ‘only’ team to challenge and that it’s a foregone conclusion then it may surprise you to learn that 62.5% of ALL City’s Premier League titles have been won by 2 points or less! That’s not even a victory – how close do you want it? How much less of a foregone conclusion works for you?

As a comparison only 15% of Manchester United’s Premier League titles have been won by 3 points or less! I know Liverpool have only won one title since the Premier League was created (yes, and many, many more before that of course!) which means that 100% of LFC’s Premier Leagues have been won by 18 points (that was a foregone conclusion and boring if we believe that the earlier the competition is won the more boring it is!).

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League Dominance – Gap Between Top and Bottom

Following on from my piece the other day about League domination where I challenged a few myths that have developed about Premier League domination. It continues to be said that the Premier League is not as competitive as in the past and that teams at the bottom have no chance. This is of course concerning and there are definitely issues between the haves and have nots in football but is this a recent phenomenon? Is this caused by one club in particular?

Each season there are often one or two clubs who have an extremely low points total and, to be frank, I’m not certain whether the champions (whoever they are and whenever they succeed) can be blamed for the results of games not involving them.

Surely, even if City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, United etc. win the League every season by a record amount of points the results between all other 19 clubs have zero to do with that club’s dominance?  If you’re a supporter of a relegated club can you honestly say that you’d stand a chance of winning the League if City or another team did not exist?  You’d need possibly the top ten to disappear before it had a major impact on your chance of League success (I’m not saying that’s acceptable – I’m just stating that it can never be the fault of one club).

Those finishing second may blame the dominant club but surely not anyone outside of those challenging. Blame all the elite maybe. These things never happen over night and because one club wins the League.

So, how do we calculate the gap between the champions and those struggling?  Where do we start?

One method is to look at the team that wins the League and see how big a gap is between them and the relegated clubs. There are often one or two teams that gather few points and so I’ve looked at the difference between the champions and the team finishing 17th (safe from relegation). I’ve taken the lowest points accumulated by the 17th placed team and compared that to the Champions.

This makes interesting reading and shows that the lowest points gathered by the 17th placed ‘safe’ team was almost two decades ago! That’s right, it’s not the current era – it’s all those years ago!

Chelsea were the champions when the lowest points total was accrued by the 17th placed club in 2004-05 (in fact the three lowest were all in the 2000s not the last decade). The five lowest points accumulated by a team in 17th place are (note: 5 of these are 2010 or earlier):

1: 2004-05 Champions Chelsea earned 61 points more than 17th placed WBA (34)

2: 2009-10 Chelsea earned 51 points more than 17th placed West Ham (35)

2: 2008-09 United earned 55 points more than 17thplaced Hull (35)

2: 2019-20 Liverpool earned 64 points more than 17th placed Aston Villa (35)

5th: 1999-00 United earned 55 points more than 17th placed Bradford (36)

5th: 2007-08 United earned 51 points more than 17th placed Fulham (36)

5th: 2013-14 City earned 50 points more than 17th placed WBA (36)

5th: 2017-18 City earned 64 points more than 17th placed Southampton (36)

5th: 2018-19 City earned 62 points more than 17th placed Brighton (36)

5th: 2022-23 City earned 53 points more than 17th placed Everton (36)

Ignoring the first few seasons when there were more than 20 clubs in the Premier League, the highest points total ever gathered by the club in 17th place was 44 (Bolton) in 2002-03 – only two seasons before the lowest points total, showing how these things can vary.

Okay but what about teams actually relegated? Here are the five lowest points accumulated by a team finishing 20th and the difference with the champions that season. Again the lowest points gathered was in the 2000s, not 2020s (Only 2 of these are since 2015 and none are from the 2020s!):

1: 2007-08 Champions United gathered 76 points more than 20th Derby (11 points)

2: 2005-06 Chelsea gathered 76 more than Sunderland (15)

3: 2018-19 City gathered 82 more than Huddersfield (16)

4: 2015-16 Leicester gathered 64 more than Aston Villa (17)

5: 2002-03 United gathered 64 more than Sunderland (19)

5: 2009-10 Liverpool gathered 78 more than Portsmouth (19)

Okay, so what about the actual points gap between the champions and the 20th placed club? Again analysis of every Premier League season shows some interesting information.  The five biggest points differences between top and bottom are (again two of these are from the 2000s):

1st: 2018-19 City 82 points over Huddersfield

2nd: 2019-20 Liverpool 78 points over Norwich

3rd: 2005-06 Chelsea 76 points over Sunderland

3rd: 2007-08 United 76 points over Derby

5th: 2021-22 City 71 points over Norwich

For the next analysis I’ve calculated the difference between the champions and the club finishing in 18th place (usually a relegated place, but not in the first couple of years of the Premier League). The idea being that the bottom two could be way off the pace.

This shows that City’s record 100 points season was the biggest gap between them and the 18th place relegated club. That’s significant, however that was an incredible record breaking season of wins for City. Interestingly though, for a team that’s supposed to be creating barriers between the top and the bottom City only hold two of the top five biggest gaps (Chelsea also hold 2) and one of those top 5 champions is actually Chelsea in 2004-05 – 19 years ago!

If we look beyond the top five there are 3 clubs in joint 6th place including Manchester United in 1998-99 – 25 years ago! Yet it’s supposed to be only now that the gap between top and relegation is vast.

For those wondering here are the highest 10 or so gaps between top and relegated clubs (18th place):

1st: 2017-18 City (the record 100 points season) 67 points over Swansea

2nd: 2019-20 Liverpool 65 points over Bournemouth

3rd: 2018-19 City 64 points over Cardiff

4th: 2004-05 Chelsea 62 points over Crystal Palace

5th: 2016-17 Chelsea 59 points over Hull

6th: 1999-00 United 58 points over Wimbledon

6th: 2020-21 City 58 points over Fulham

6th: 2021-22 City 58 points over Burnley

9th: 2003-04 Arsenal 57 points over Leicester

9th: 2005-06 Chelsea 57 points over Birmingham

11th: 2008-09 United 56 points over Newcastle

11th: 2009-10 Chelsea 56 points over Burnley

What does all this statistical information prove? Well there doesn’t appear to be much difference between the 2000s and the last decade. Some seasons in each decade there were huge gaps.

We all know that the elite are some way ahead of those that struggle and there is an imbalance. That’s concerning for football and the introduction of Financial Fair Play and similar has, so far, strengthened the position of the elite and limited the opportunity for investment at lower clubs. 

You can read my previous post here:

League Dominance?
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League Dominance?

Lots of tosh has been spoken recently about teams dominating English league football with some claiming that there’s ‘never’ been a time when a team has dominated as much as Manchester City do today. Ignoring the fact that the League campaign is not over yet and will go to the final day (so that’s a nonsense for a start) I decided to pull together a few facts that may be useful. They’re certainly relevant.

So, first of all, the question of whether Manchester City is the first to dominate in a way no other has before (again the season isn’t over and it could go either way yet, so ‘dominate’ is not something I believe anyway!)… City have currently won 3 League titles in a row. A feat that has been done several times before, most recently (before City) by Manchester United in 2006-09.

Ah, but City have won 5 out of 6 titles they say… Yes, but United won 7 out of the first 9 Premier Leagues and were runners up in the other 2. Liverpool achieved the same 7 out of 9 League titles in the 1970s and early 80s. We can’t predict the future of course but City have never managed seven titles in 9 seasons. In fact if City do win the League the stats will show it’s 7 in 11 seasons and at present it’s 7 titles in 12 seasons. So that means two other clubs have had longer spells as ‘dominant’ clubs using the language and phraseology that those criticising the reigning Champions usually use.

One of the other criticisms that’s thrown City’s way is about the Premier League being ‘boring’ because it’s a ‘foregone conclusion’ and ‘other teams have to be perfect’ to finish above City. Well, to be the best you have to beat the best but in terms of the League being ‘boring’ and a ‘foregone conclusion’ then the stats in terms of points gaps say otherwise.

Sure, City’s incredible 2017-18 season when they amassed 100 points was one in which the Blues ran away with the title, but it was also a rarity. City won the League by bettering second place by an astounding 19 points but, wait a minute, that amazing gap is only 1 point  more than the (18 point) gap between 2020 champions Liverpool and second placed City (at a time when City are supposed to be the dominant team!). Not only that but United had an 18 point gap between them and second placed Arsenal in 2000.

Worth noting too that in the 31 season history of the Premier League 14 runners-up teams bettered 2nd placed United’s points tally in 2017-18 when City achieved their 100 points. Surely, no title winning team can be blamed if the runners-up have worse results than in more than 45% of the competition’s seasonal history?

What about the ‘foregone conclusion’ and ‘boring’ line? Well, I suppose it can be argued it’s boring if the League is won many, many weeks before the end of the season. Using that logic it should also be ‘not boring’ if it goes down to the last game (like this season) or the last week (could be 2 or 3 games depending on fixture congestion). So I’ve had a look at how many seasons have finished with 3 points or less separating the top two teams. This shows that there have been 9 seasons when this has been the case. Guess what? 4 of those were seasons when City have won the Premier League (2 United, 1 Arsenal, Blackburn & Chelsea).

This means that 57% of all City’s Premier League title wins have been by less than 3 points! For United (13 PL titles) the figure is 15%; Arsenal (3 PL) it’s 33% and Chelsea (5 PL) is 20%.  Four of United’s PL titles have been won by 10 points or more.

Of course, title races can be exciting when teams win the League by ten points or more, but the argument many put across is that it’s boring when one team walks away with it. Surely there’s less chance of that happening when a team wins the title by less than 3 points?

There are lots of statistics that could be posted and, to be frank, they never actually tell the story of a season. How many times do we see possession stats that are in one club’s favour but the other team is actually winning? Nevertheless, when people try to suggest a season is boring because a club (any club) is running away with it then the stats can help show that something is not true. Similarly, when it comes to dominant football clubs – yes, there are eras of dominance by certain clubs and Manchester City certainly are a dominant club at the moment – we must not be fooled into thinking that a situation has NEVER happened before when it so obviously has (and other clubs may actually have been more dominant!).

Ah well! Football, hey? If only people actually looked at history more before jumping to conclusions.

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Record Holder: Johnson’s 38th League Goal

Today (4 May) in 1929 the legendary Tommy Johnson netted his 38th League goal of the season at Anfield when City drew 1-1 with Liverpool. This remains Manchester City’s record number of goals by a player in a League season (Haaland scored 36 League goals in 2022-23). Johnson’s 38th goal came in the 22nd minute of the final game. Here for subscribers is a detailed look at Tommy’s record and his life.

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Anelka Double and Peter The Great

On this day (3 May) in 2003 Manchester City defeated Liverpool 2-1 at Anfield. The newspaper reports that followed tended to praise City ‘keeper Peter Schmeichel most, even though Nicolas Anelka had scored both goals for the Blues. In Manchester, this was a hugely popular City win but this was a strange and emotional period for all connected with the Blues. The following game would be City’s last first team match at Maine Road and while fans celebrated a rare win at Anfield there were many emotions as the club now looked ahead to Maine Road’s farewell.

You can read plenty on this final season elsewhere on the site.

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