Today I’m focusing on Manchester emblems and, in particular, those used by Manchester City over the years. The club’s current badge has been worn on shirts for over six years after first being revealed at Christmas 2015 and worn from summer 2016, but its roots go back decades with City developing a round badge by the 1930s.
Here for subscribers is a 1500 word piece on the development of badges at City and United. Enjoy!
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While we look forward to the return of domestic football it’s worth remembering that before the pause for the World Cup there had already been records broken by Manchester City, such as the incredible goalscoring start to the season by Erling Haaland; results like the Manchester Derby 6-3 victory and Rico Lewis becoming the youngest player to score in his first Champions League start. In mid-August there was a flurry of excitement across social media and elsewhere when City were top of the Premier League and United were bottom. People asked when was the last time that had happened.
It turned out that the two clubs had last been in those positions way back in November 1929 and it seemed to surprise some that it was so long ago. The truth is that no matter how poor United or City may have been in past seasons, it has been extremely rare for either club to occupy the bottom spot over the decades. It has been even rarer for the other ‘Manchester’ club to be top at the same time.
So for this 1400 word subscriber article I’m going to talk about when one team has been top and the other bottom and then I’ll take a look at 1929 and the years that followed to highlight how the two Manchester clubs fared. Enjoy….
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Glyn Pardoe came close to having his leg amputated on this day (12 December) in 1970 following a foul by George Best in the Manchester derby at Old Trafford. I interviewed Pardoe about his career in 2004 and here for subscribers are his views of the tackle and subsequent injury, together with a few contemporary articles from 1970. It became one of the most controversial derby moments of all time and arguments raged for years on whether it had been a deliberate act or not. You can be the judge by reading Pardoe’s views and the contemporary media.
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On this day (12 December) in 1970 a hat-trick from Francis Lee (this was City’s last hat-trick in a derby until Haaland and Foden in 2022!), together with a goal from Mike Doyle, gave Manchester City a comfortable 4-1 victory over Manchester United before an Old Trafford crowd of 52,636. That victory meant City had won 5 and only dropped 4 points in 8 consecutive League derby meetings with the Reds. There was also a devastating injury to Glyn Pardoe (more on that in another post!). Here is the background, report and verdict of that game…
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I’m delighted to say that I was at the Etihad Stadium today when a record crowd for a women’s club game in Greater Manchester was set when 44,259 watched City draw 1-1 with United. This includes all home games by Greater Manchester’s clubs; WFA Cup finals played in the area and games played by Dick, Kerr Ladies and other prominent women’s clubs over the last 140 years or so. For those wondering the top four highest club attendances are:
44,259 City v United, Etihad, December 2022
31,213 City V United, Etihad, September 2019
31,000 (occasionally reported as 35,000) Dick, Kerr Ladies v Bath Ladies, Old Trafford, January 1921
30,196 United V Aston Villa, Old Trafford, December 2022
You can read about the first competitive women’s Manchester Derby, which occurred in 1990, here:
Tomorrow is the latest Manchester derby in the Women’s Super League. There’s a long history of competition between teams representing the women of Manchester City and Manchester United. City’s team has been in existence continually since November 1988 when Donna Haynes and Heidi Ward both scored two goals in their first game (v Oldham Athletic at Boundary Park).
I was at the City Ladies (as they were then known) first game and I was also at their first league derby in September 1990 when City defeated United 4-3. It was a fantastic day, watched by around 150 people.
City’s goals came from Rhoda Taylor (8 min), Rachel O’Shaughnessy (43 mins), Jenny Newton (50 mins) and Lesley Peters. City’s manager Neil Mather told me as part of my research for the Manchester City Women book: ‘United were the top side, you know, and beating them was so good for morale. The men’s team were a good side in the early 90s when City Ladies carried on developing, you know. This was the Howard Kendall era, and City had top five finishes. City were one of the top five or six teams in the country at the time, so it was fabulous for women’s football to have Man City, you know.’
Helen Hempenstall played for City that day and she described her memory of the day for my book: I remember when we played United (30/9/90) and Neil (Helen’s boyfriend, now husband) and all his mates came to watch us. There were a lot of people there that day. United had a decent team then. It was always a difficult game against United. They had a right-winger… We never got on. Every time we played each other we were at each other all the way through the game. Me and Carol Woodall were having a go at her. The referee told Lesley Wright “Tell both your full backs to shut their mouths otherwise they’ll both be off!” We just didn’t get along and before every game I thought I’ll get in their first. ‘I’m having her.’ Neil Mather still talks about it.
‘I think Lesley Wright kept the team together. She kept it all tight at the back. I played at the back with her and I learnt a lot from her. Because I was next to her I knew how important she was. If I missed something she always got it. She always encouraged me and kept shouting ‘different class, different class’. You learn from the people around you and I listened to her. Before every game she came to speak to me. She’d put her arm around me and reassure me. She’d tell me not to worry about anything. Most of the time travelling to away games I’d go with Lesley in the car. We used to have a laugh. I remember one day we were travelling to an away game some distance away and we stopped for petrol and all got out. I lit up a fag and everyone else jumped back in the car screaming! I didn’t even think! When we got to the ground they all told Neil Mather and I think he worried that he could’ve lost half his team. At another game I was sat in the middle and as we got out the person before me slammed the door back. It hit my head and I had a big lump for the game.’
The story of that game and of the first 30 years or so of City Women’s existence can be read in my book on the club. It’s called Manchester City Women: An Oral History and is basically the women telling their stories of playing for the club and how they got into football, plus statistics covering the journey from friendlies in 1988-89 through to competition and the modern day successes.
You can buy the book via this link (every copy is signed by me):
We’re in the knock out stages of the World Cup and Manchester City players are contributing significantly to England’s progression at the moment. They are household names and are delivering on the biggest stage, but what about the first City player to appear for England? Who was it and when? Well, here’s the answer.
The first Manchester City player to appear for England was Herbert Burgess, who was reportedly born in Openshaw on 25 February 1883. Burgess was a left back but, according to articles at the time, was only 5ft 4.75 inches tall (weighing 11st 7lbs).
He made his first England appearance against Wales, and City teammate Billy Meredith, in February 1904 and did well in a game that ended 2-2 at Wrexham.
Prior to City Burgess had joined Football League side Glossop in March 1900 and, after three good years there, he moved to City on 30 July 1903. The fee City paid was £250. This was a period when Manchester’s Blues seemed to be cherry-picking the best Glossop had to offer and one report even suggested the nearby club was becoming a nursery club for City.
Burgess made three international appearances in 1904 with the Welsh game followed by a 3-1 victory over Ireland at Solitude, Belfast in March and a 1-0 win over Scotland at Parkhead, Glasgow on 9 April 1904. Only two weeks later Burgess helped City to FA Cup success (they became the first Manchester team to win a major trophy) and the Blues were also League runners up. These were great days for Burgess.
He made one further appearance for England – a 2-1 defeat at Hampden Park on 7 April 1906, played in front of 102,741 – and was furious that one of the Scotland goals was allowed to stand.
This period was a tough one for Burgess as the illegal payments scandal at City completely rocked his world. He was one of 17 players suspended by the FA (I can talk about this for days – it was so unfair and northern newspapers believed it was some sort of conspiracy by the southern based FA!).
Burgess was forced to leave City and, along with other star men, including Billy Meredith, he joined the then underdogs Manchester United and helped them achieve their first major success. He then moved to Denmark and played for Kristiania before joining Hungarian club MTK Budapest.
When his playing days came to an end he became Budapest’s manager and then managed Padova (1922-1926). He left Padova to become Milan’s manager in 1926 and after two years there he returned to Padova.
From 1930 to 1932 Burgess managed another Italian club, Roma. This photo is of Burgess (with cap on) as manager of AS Roma.
Burgess immediately etched his own name into the history of Roma, winning the first ever Rome derby in only his second game in charge. Roma won 1-0 win at Lazio’s Stadio della Rondinella. Burgess also guided Roma to success in the second derby, winning 3-1, the following May, this time at their all-wooden ground Campo Testaccio.
Burgess never lost a Rome derby during his time there as they drew their subsequent two derbies under him. His Roma team also pushed eventual champions Juventus all the way in the 1930-31 campaign, finishing just four points behind Juventus as runners-up.
Sadly, it’s been reported that Italy’s development under the dictatorship of Mussolino meant that English coaches were under pressure to leave and Burgess returned to Manchester, taking a job as a labourer on a housing estate on the outskirts of Manchester. He also became trainer to Ashton National.
He died in 1954.
In total at City he made 94 first team appearances and scored two goals. Had the illegal payments scandal not occurred he may well have been an England regular for several years. As it is his career is pretty impressive for a lad born in Openshaw in the 1880s – FA Cup & League winner; England international; manager of prominent clubs in Hungary and Italy.
People tend to think that it’s only in the modern era that Manchester City have achieved anything or that footballers have gone abroad to coach major clubs like Milan, Budapest and Roma, but the truth is that men like Burgess achieved so much over a century ago. We must take steps to remember them. Oh, and while I’m here it’s worth pointing out that City did have international players for years before Burgess but they didn’t play for England.
The earliest played to make an international appearance while on City’s books made an appearance for Wales in 1890 when the club was still Ardwick. Maybe I’ll write about him one day too?
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If you have enjoyed this piece and would like to support my writing while also accessing further great content, then why not subscribe? Those who subscribe on an annual basis get access to everything posted on this site since December 2020. Those subscribing on a monthly basis get access to everything posted since 1 October 2022. It’s £20 a year (subscribe above) or £3 per month (subscribe here). Why not try it for a month?
On this day (16 November) in 1991 the Manchester derby ended goalless at Maine Road but so many, many chances went City’s way! It was a frustrating draw for the Blues and came at a time when neither side had won the League since the 1960s (City in 1967-68 if you want to know). It was felt that momentum was building at Maine Road. This is one of those periods when football history could’ve gone in a different direction.
There was pressure on United boss Alex Ferguson. He had brought the ECWC and FA Cup to United by this time but it was the League that the club craved. City had ended 1990-91 in fifth place and United were 6th. Had City had a bit of fortune around this time they may well have found some success.
Arsenal had won the League in 1991 but no team dominated the League year after year. The birth of the Premier League was coming (1992) and the new riches that came with that meant that the teams that did find League success from then on could potentially dominate in a way no club had before. With United’s title success in 1992-93, United and Arsenal became the two clubs that benefited most from the riches of the Premier League. That created a gap that only strong investment could bridge.
Ah well! Money and football is nothing new. Anyway, here are a few highlights of the derby:
Attendance: 50,182; City 4 United 0 (League Cup 4th round)
A 35 second opener from Tueart and a world-class performance by Hartford give City total control of this tie. However few at Maine Road are able to celebrate as a fifth minute tackle by Buchan on Bell causes the influential City star to be stretchered away. City deserve the victory, but the cost is high.
I’ve written lots on Colin Bell over the years and I was fortunate to interview him a few times too. You can read some of the articles I’ve written here:
The links between the blue and the red half of Manchester are many, although there are some who will quickly deny the others mere existence. Fortunately, there are others who will embrace those historic, and often welcome links between the two bitter rivals, history being more important than the colour of a football shirt.
The links, as I said, are many, but if only three were to be listed, it is arguable that these would be, in no particular order, Sir Matt Busby, Billy Meredith and Denis Law for self-explanatory reasons. There is, however, one man who should nudge all three of those legendary figures out of the way, a man from the distant past, but one whose place in the history of both City and United is assured, but sadly, often forgotten. His name? John Ernest Mangnall.
Born in Bolton in January 1866, Mangnall also stakes a claim in the history of his local club, and that of near neighbours Burnley, a proud Lancastrian, but it is in Cottonopolis that he comes to the fore and more so during his time with Manchester United.
But for the meantime, let’s push Ernest Mangnall’s footballing credentials to the side [his given first name being lost in the mists of time] and look at the man from a much different sporting angle.
It might be said that football, a game that he played with the same enthusiasm that he carried forward into his managerial positions, was not even his first love, as he was more than a keen cyclist, being a member of various clubs, entering races and most notably cycling between John O’Groats and Lands End, at a time when bicycles were certainly not built for comfort.
Having cut his managerial teeth with Burnley, although he had helped steer Bolton along the way from the boardroom, as a director, he found is way to the dull, dreary surroundings of Clayton in 1903, with many possibly correct in thinking he was a glutton for punishment, as United were little more than a struggling side and had been rescued from what could easily have been oblivion by J.H. Davies. They had also recently changed their name from Newton Heath to Manchester United.
Appointed in place of James West, who had resigned as secretary, Mangnall embraced the role of the man not simply answered the mail and carried out other menial tasks, but took on the running of the club as a whole. Purchasing postage stamps of players made little difference.
Slowly Mangnall began to blend a team together and following a handful of near but not quite near enough finishes, he guided United out of the Second Division and into the top flight at the end of the 1905-06 season where, thanks to his now neighbours City finding themselves in a spot of bother, he ‘stole’ Burgess, Meredith, Bannister and Sandy Turnbull from his rivals and with the likes of Charlie Roberts and Dick Duckworth already at United, he had a more than capable team at his finger tips, creating a team that gave Manchester United their first domestic trophies with the League championship in 1908 and the FA Cup in 1909. The former was also won in 1911, plus success in the FA Charity Shield in 1908 and 1911.
Not only was he instrumental in building a strong United team on the field, he was more than involved in dragging the club away from its slum like home at Clayton and moving to pastures new at Old Trafford.
But all good things come to an end at some point or other and having perhaps achieved as much as he could at Old Trafford, Mangnall made the surprise move across town and joined neighbours City in August 1912. What the club and manager hoped to achieve failed to materialise, but as he had done with United, he played a major part in City’s move to Maine Road.
So, that is the career of Ernest Mangnall in a nutshell, but if you want to learn more about that man then his biography is available now from Empire Publications, 229 Ayres Road, Old Trafford, Manchester, M16 0NL UK Tel: 0161 872 3319 or 1 Newton Street, Manchester M1 1HW – telephone 0161 872 3319.
As something of a postscript.
I created ‘The Manchester United Graves Society’ a couple of years or so back, whereby I am trying to locate the burial places [or cremation details] of as many former players and officials as possible and to date have found over 500. One of the early finds was John Ernest Mangnall, who died at Lytham St Annes in January 1932, and is buried in the Lytham Park Cemetery.
Upon obtaining a photograph of his grave, I was saddened to find that the headstone was broken and the grave in general was in need of some TLC. So, enquiries were made with the cemetery as regards to any red tape that would cause problems in restoring the grave to its former glory and thankfully there were none. To be honest, they were more than delighted that someone wanted to carry out restoration work on the grave.
Funds were raised, a stone mason contacted and the work was carried out. Photos of before and after are shown here.
Should anyone want to visit the grave, it can be found at – A – 512 C/E. Go in the main gate and head up to your right.
Gary James' Football Archive 