It’s one of those weekends where the Blues and Reds of Manchester and Liverpool meet. Everton v United today and City v Liverpool tomorrow. In terms of football the two cities of Manchester and Liverpool were extremely close for decades but in business and everyday life they have been rivals (bitter at times) for over 150 years. People will talk about all sorts of factors with the main one discussed being about the trade issues Manchester faced because Liverpool basically controlled Manchester’s access to the sea. I don’t want to go on too much about it all but I do want to show these sections from American newspapers which give an indication of what the situation was from another nation’s point of view.
It’s interesting to note that at least one of these articles shows that Manchester tried to ensure the whole of England benefitted from the city’s growing prosperity, suggesting that previously Liverpool only benefitted from this kind of trade.
Crittenden Record, July 04, 1907Americus Times, April 14, 1903,The Morning News, July 23, 1894
There are lots of articles on my site about Manchester’s teams and those from Liverpool. Here are details of articles than are tagged ‘Liverpool’:
Every year, once the domestic season ends I update the table showing the English clubs’ span of success – i.e. the number of years between a club’s first major success (FA Cup, League, League Cup, major European trophy) and their most recent. I last did this after the 2023-24 season ended (see below). There wasn’t much difference between the 2023 final table and the 2024. Both Liverpool and Manchester City increased their span, as did United. Next month there’s a chance Newcastle can leap from 16th place (just behind Chelsea) to joint second with City. Here’s the table as it stands at present:
As I always say, the span of success does not show how many trophies each club has won or how frequently that club has experienced great eras of success, but it does demonstrate how wrong those people are who believe certain clubs were unsuccessful until recent years, or those who think certain clubs have always been giants. The column on first major success helps to show when some clubs first became trophy-winning significant (often after transformational investment too!).
There’s not much difference between 2023 and 2024 – numbers have changed but not positions. In 2023 West Ham, like potentially Newcastle this year, proved that if you’re a club that hasn’t won a major trophy for a while putting your focus on achieving trophy success ahead of the odd Premier League position can bring significant reward. In future decades no one will remember who finished seventh, tenth or fifteenth but they will remember the trophies. Here’s the previous year’s table for comparison purposes:
I know clubs focus on their financials but winning a trophy has longevity, gaining the odd Premier League place provides a bit of extra cash now but no long term kudos. Winning a trophy attracts new fans and brings money-spinning opportunities too.
If I was a supporter of any of the major clubs who have not found significant success in recent decades then I would absolutely want my team to go for whichever cup competition seems the most likely to win. That’s what I always wanted from City before they were able to compete for the League again. Winning the FA Cup in 2011 helped everything that followed happen – it gave confidence and a trophy winning mentality.
While you’re here why not take a look at the wide range of articles available on this site? Such as the 100 day series of features on Maine Road:
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It’s the latest Liverpool-City game on Sunday and, obviously, because they’re at home, top of the League and City have had a bad run recently, this really is a game when Liverpool should win. Of course, football can throw up shock results so fingers crossed! There are lots of articles on my site about games between these two, so why not have a look at these as preparation for the game? Here are a few links:
There are plenty of other mentions of Liverpool on this site so why not use the tabs or do a search.
If you enjoy all the free material on my website and would like to support my research and keep this website going (but don’t want to subscribe) then why not make a one-time donation (or buy me a coffee). All support for my research is valued and welcome. It allows me to keep some free material available for all. Thanks.
Here’s a brief clip I took on this day (6 November) in 2021 of City fans at the end of the Manchester Derby at Old Trafford. A dominant day for Manchester’s Blues.
After the game City manager Pep Guardiola told the BBC he wanted to give a ‘massive compliment to the players’ because ‘they are the real artists for the way we played.’
Guardiola said City’s approach was shaped by United’s ability on the counter-attack: ‘If you don’t finish the attack you will be attacked much, much quicker and that is where they are so good. That is why we needed a game with a thousand million passes. We need a game like with the ball in the fridge, keep it there. Right now Chelsea are unstoppable. We know we cannot drop much points to be close to them but against the big six we performed well.’
The win lifted City above Liverpool into second in the Premier League while fifth-placed United were nine points behind leaders Chelsea.
Manchester City meeting Ipswich this weekend is a nice reminder that a fixture between the two almost 50 years ago made an enormous contribution to the birth of a City chant. That chant is still sung today and is known as either the Viking Call or ‘The Best Team In The Land…’
Chanting at football games is rarely documented correctly with many myths, rumours and stories developing over the years. Te following feature is designed to give a potted overview of the development of singing at City and tells the story and part Ipswich played in it:
Now, for subscribers is an 1800 word article on the history and development of chants at Manchester City:
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On this day (21 August) a Wednesday night meeting with Liverpool ended in a 2-1 victory for Manchester City. You can see highlights of the game (and relive the days of night matches on the Kippax/at Maine Rd) including two David White goals here:
Continuing the series of features on Manchester City in the early 1900s! Today it’s an article on the 1908-09 season. If you’re a subscriber you can read this below.
If you’re not a subscriber then why not sign up for a month and see what you think?
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Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) or sign up a year at a time for the discounted annual fee of £20. This gives access to everything on the site, including PDFs of 3 of my books and various other articles, interviews and audio material. Each subscriber has access to all content posted during their subscription period too. Why not sign up for a month and see what you think?
Continuing the series of features on Manchester City in the early 1900s! Today it’s a 9400 (yes that’s right!) word article telling the story of 1903-04 when Manchester won its first major trophy. If you’re a subscriber you’ll need to get a brew before reading this celebration of that season. If you’re not a subscriber then why not?
Ever wondered how Manchester found its first major trophy success or what the scandal that rocked City was all about? Then subscribe and read this series of articles.
Subscribe to get access
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) or sign up a year at a time for the discounted annual fee of £20. This gives access to everything on the site, including PDFs of 3 of my books and various other articles, interviews and audio material. Each subscriber has access to all content posted during their subscription period too. Why not sign up for a month and see what you think?
The series of features on the 1900s continues today with a simple look at the average attendances of league clubs. I’m publishing the statistics here for season 1900-1901 when Manchester City finished 11th in the First Division (top tier). There were 18 clubs in the division that season. Despite this relatively low position, City were the second best supported club – the highest position either Manchester team had enjoyed up to that point. League champions Liverpool were the 5th best supported club. Newton Heath (MUFC) were still a Second Division club and were 22nd best supported team.
All these figures are estimated based on newspaper reports of the period but are widely accepted as a good indication of support enjoyed at each club.
Match programme for 29 September 1900. Manchester City v Stoke
In the following table every team is in Division One unless (2) appears after their name. This indicates they were a Second Division club that season. Where two teams have the same average then these have been listed in alphabetic order.
1900-1901 Average Attendances
Average
Team
18700
Aston Villa
18300
Manchester City
16225
Everton
15800
Newcastle
15000
Liverpool
13600
Sheff Utd
11525
Sunderland
10575
WBA
10175
Bolton
9950
Sheff Wed
9450
Notts County
9350
Nottm Forest
8375
Middlesbrough (2)
8050
Derby
6950
Bury
6850
Stoke
6575
Blackburn
6325
Preston
5900
Small Heath (2)
5900
Woolwich Arsenal (2)
5850
Wolves
5475
Newton Heath (2)
4975
Leicester Fosse (2)
4625
Grimsby (2)
3725
Stockport (2)
3575
Lincoln (2)
3125
Walsall (2)
3100
Burnley (2)
2850
Barnsley (2)
2825
Chesterfield (2)
2800
Glossop (2)
2675
New Brighton Tower (2)
2375
Burton Swifts (2)
2075
Burslem Port Vale (2)
2050
Gainsborough Trinity (2)
1850
Blackpool (2)
This series of features covers the final years of Ardwick, the birth of Manchester City and the Club’s first national success. Why not subscribe and read every feature?
The series of features on the 1900s starts today with a simple look at the average attendances of league clubs. I’m publishing the statistics here for season 1899-1900 when Manchester City was a First Division club for the first time. They were the third best supported club – the highest position either Manchester team had enjoyed up to that point. In fact City had been the best supported club for the opening months of the season as the heading photo shows (that’s from 20 January 1900).
All these figures are estimated based on newspaper reports of the period but are widely accepted as a good indication of support enjoyed at each club.
Manchester City with the Second Division Shield, 1899
In the following table every team is in Division One unless (2) appears after their name. This indicates they were a Second Division club that season. Where two teams have the same average then these have been listed in alphabetic order.
1899-1900 Average Attendances
Average
Team
19825
Aston Villa
16725
Newcastle
16000
Manchester City
12925
Everton
11325
Liverpool
11175
Sheff Utd
10475
Sunderland
8950
Notts County
8125
Derby
7875
Nottm Forest
7700
Stoke
7150
Sheff Wed (2)
6575
Wolves
6475
Blackburn
6250
Leicester Fosse (2)
6225
Newton Heath (2)
6175
WBA
5925
Burnley
5925
Middlesbrough (2)
5775
Bury
5050
Small Heath (2)
4825
Preston
4800
Bolton (2)
4125
Woolwich Arsenal (2)
4000
Glossop
3775
Grimsby (2)
3775
Lincoln (2)
2950
Chesterfield (2)
2875
New Brighton Tower (2)
2525
Walsall (2)
2400
Barnsley (2)
1875
Gainsborough Trinity (2)
1675
Burslem Port Vale (2)
1650
Loughborough (2)
1650
Luton (2)
1500
Burton Swifts (2)
This series of features covers Manchester City in the opening years of the twentieth century. Why not subscribe and read every feature?
Tomorrow there’ll be a subscriber article on the 1900-01 season in a similar style to those recently posted on the 1890s. Here’s an 1800 article below on Manchester City in the final months of 1899:
Subscribe to get access
Read more of this content when you subscribe today. It costs £3 per month (cancel anytime) or sign up a year at a time for the discounted annual fee of £20. This gives access to everything on the site, including PDFs of 3 of my books and various other articles, interviews and audio material. Each subscriber has access to all content posted during their subscription period too. Why not sign up for a month and see what you think?
Gary James' Football Archive 