Football writing, thoughts and more by Gary James
On this day (25 November) in 2020 City defeated Olympiakos in the UEFA Champions League to progress to the last 16. Subscribers can read about that game below:
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On 3 June 2023 Ilkay Gundogan City secured his place in national football history with the quickest goal in a FA Cup final. It was a stunning volley after only 12 seconds. That day Gundogan scored two and helped City to 2-1 FA Cup final victory over Manchester United.
As well as the speed of the first goal, Gundogan’s goals gave him another MCFC record. Dave Masey, who has been collecting stats and historical information on Manchester City for years contacted me to tell me about one of his spreadsheets which holds details of City scorers in trophy winning games.
His records capture those who have scored in major cup finals, but besides Cup Finals he also records other trophy-winning games. These include the deciding League games from 1937 onwards against Sheffield Wednesday (1937), Newcastle, QPR, West Ham, Brighton and Villa (2022), but nothing from three recent title successes where the Blues clinched the title when they were not playing. Got that? Good, now….
Dave tells me that the FA Cup success saw Gundogan move to the top of the list with 5 goals, overtaking Neil Young and Sergio Aguero. So he has scored more goals in trophy-winning games than any other Blue.
The list of scorers in trophy winning games reads:
| 1904 | Meredith |
| 1934/7 | Tilson (3), Brook (2), Doherty |
| 1956 | Hayes, Dyson, Johnstone |
| 1968/70 | Young (4), Lee (2), Summerbee, Doyle, Pardoe |
| 1976 | P Barnes, Tueart |
| 2011-(former) | Aguero (4), Y Toure (2), Nasri (2), Kompany (2), D Silva (2),Jesus (2), Sterling (2), Dzeko, Zabaleta, Navas, Fernandinho |
| 2016-(current) | Gundogan (5), Laporte (2), Rodri (2), Mahrez, De Bruyne |
Dave also tells me that in the three seasons where somebody else’s defeat clinched the title for City, the scorers in the club’s last game before the title confirmation were:
Gundogan (3), Sterling (2), Jesus, Haaland.
As Dave says, Ilkay gets a remarkable number of important goals, particularly for somebody who is ‘just’ a 1 goal in 5/6 games player (63 in 357 for City by June 2025).
Today (14 May) in 2023 goals from Ilkay Gundogan (2) and Erling Haaland gave City a 3-0 win at Goodison Park and left Manchester’s Blues within one win of sealing a third consecutive Premier League title. This was Gundogan’s 300th appearance for City. It was also City’s 11th straight Premier League win. Highlights here:
https://www.mancity.com/citytv/mens/everton-v-manchester-city-extended-highlights-63819677
Manchester City became Premier League champions on this day (12 May) in 2019 when they defeated Brighton 4-1 after going behind. It became a day of great celebration after a nervy opening when Brighton took a 27th minute lead. That goal had meant Liverpool were top of the table in the ‘live’ table on TV and websites. Fortunately 83 seconds later Aguero made it 1-1.
City’s other scorers were Laporte, Mahrez and Gundogan. Highlights can be seen here:
So far I’ve told you about Bert Trautmann, Tony Book and Glyn Pardoe in my all-time best Manchester City FA Cup final winning team and today it’s the time for another couple of names.
I was asked to select an all-time City eleven and had two rules – they had to actually play in a winning final (so, unused substitutes were not allowed) and they could not be a member of the current playing squad. I also tried to focus on the fact that this eleven would also be facing an all time Manchester United eleven. Therefore victories over United in key games were always in the back of my mind.
The next two players selected are:
Vincent Kompany (2008-2019)
Captained City to a record 6-0 victory in the 2019 final and played in the 2011 success over Stoke. This determined Belgian led by example through many glorious trophy-winning seasons and had a knack of scoring crucial goals at important moments. Solid, reliable and a great motivator. My captain.
İlkay Gündoğan (2017-2023)
The hero of the 2023 final. Selected here to get City off to a great start and, if the game is in the balance, to pop up with a second goal! This German international is another true leader, captaining City to a remarkable treble. He was also a member of the 2019 FA Cup winning team.
More on the all-time Manchester City FA Cup winning eleven tomorrow. It was a tough selection and over the next few days I’ll post the rest of the starting eleven.
You can read about the significance of 2011 in this feature here:
More on the all-time FA Cup winning eleven tomorrow.
Well, the Premier League is now over for another year and we know who the Champions (4-in-a-row) are and who has qualified for Europe etc. so it’s time to look forward to the second all Manchester FA Cup final. The first was of course last season and started off wonderfully for Manchester’s Blues with that record-making Gundogan opener.
Prior to this last year’s final, the closest Manchester City and Manchester United got to playing each other in a Wembley FA Cup final were the FA Cup semi finals in 1926 and 2011. I wasn’t around in 1926 but I definitely was in 2011! A few years back I made this special audio recording talking about the years building up to the semi and the day itself from a Manchester City perspective. Many of you have listened to this already but if you haven’t then it tells the story of the 2011 FA Cup semi final and the years between 1976 and that moment in 2011 for City.
I included audio from interviews I did with a variety of people including Khaldoon, Peter Swales, Garry Cook, Brain Marwood and many others.
If you have heard it before then maybe you should listen again to remind yourself of how we all felt and why that game was so significant.
I included a few words from Roberto Mancini recorded in 2011 and at one point he talks about the view that was then being expressed that City were ‘trying’ to buy success (now they say City ‘have’ bought success!). His words are a reminder that City have been having that particular criticism thrown at them for over a decade! Oh well, I wonder how long those criticisms were laid at other clubs who had seen major investment which propelled them forward?
Anyway, get yourself a brew and be prepared to be transported back in time. Here’s the recording:
If you enjoy the recording then please let me know, comment or subscribe to the site. If you don’t fancy doing that then there’s also the option to make a welcome donation to keep this site going (see below). I’ve produced videos/talks like this highlighting key points in Manchester City’s footballing history which subscribers can watch too.
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Match Stats for the 2011 FA Cup Semi-final
City 1-0 United (HT 0-0)
Yaya Toure 52
City: 25 Hart 04 Kompany (yellow card), 05 Zabaleta (yellow card), 13 Kolarov, 19 Lescott, 11 Johnson (Wright-Phillips 79), 18 Barry, 21 Silva (Vieira 86), 34 De Jong (yellow card), 42 Y Toure, 45 Balotelli (yellow card). Substitutes 12 Taylor, 38 Boyata, 07 Milner, 08 Wright-Phillips, 24 Vieira, 10 Dzeko, 27 Jo
United: 01 Van der Sar, 03 Evra, 05 Ferdinand, 15 Vidic, 22 O’Shea (Fabio Da Silva 84), 13 Park Ji-Sung, 16 Carrick, 17 Nani, 18 Scholes (red card), 25 Valencia (Hernandez 65), 09 Berbatov (Anderson 74). Substitutes 29 Kuszczak, 12 Smalling, 20 Fabio Da Silva, 08 Anderson, 28 Gibson, 07 Owen, 14 Hernandez
Referee: Dean
Attendance: 86,549
Today (28 November) in 2021 Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola believed that City groundsman Lee Jackson and his team were the real stars as City defeated West Ham 2-1 in snowy conditions. Pep said: ‘I think the groundkeepers, the men who took care of the pitch, were the men of the match. They did an incredible job so we could play the game today.’
In the first half with heavy snow falling on a pitch already covered in it, there was a real fear the game might not reach its conclusion. Lee Jackson and his team got to work and, with the aid of a half-time interval extended by referee Michael Oliver by five minutes, the surface was clear enough to play on.
City won the game with goals from Gundogan (33rd minute) and Fernandinho (90). West Ham scored a consolation (Lanzini) in the 4th minute of added time.
I’ve been asked whether Gundogan’s goal in the FA Cup final was the fastest Manchester City goal of all time. Sadly, it’s impossible to prove as we do not have accurate times for the majority of goals scored throughout football history. Often in the past reports would say things like: ‘From the kick-off City rushed forward and scored.’ No time and even when this is said in reports highlights that have been found often show that this was not the case, so it’s impossible to say conclusively.
We know it’s the fastest FA Cup final goal of all time and, at 12 seconds, it’s also the fastest goal in a Manchester derby. Back in 1975 Dennis Tueart netted what was claimed to be the fastest derby goal at 35 seconds. I interviewed him about it a few years ago:
GJ: ‘You played in lots of significant derbies over the years, but there is one, above all others, that we should mention – the November 1975 League Cup tie at Maine Road.‘
DT: ‘I scored the first goal after about 35 seconds and that is the fastest goal in a Manchester derby. It was a midweek game at Maine Road and I loved night matches, under the floodlights, packed stadium. Incredible. The lights meant that the stadium shone out amongst the dark streets – it was the whole focus.
‘We were 1-0 up and played great football. 3-0 up after 36 minutes when I got my second goal after Asa Hartford had got City’s second. Colin Bell was injured and stretchered off which was by far the worst moment of the evening and would impact us for the next few years.
‘After the game we went to Cellar Vie in the city centre, and I walked in and I got a standing ovation from everyone in there. Again it hit home how important the derby was to the city of Manchester.’
Now Gundogan holds the record but we should also mention Shaun Goater who in 2003 netted after only 9 seconds of coming on as substitute. You can read about that here:
Gundogan’s goal is the fastest in a derby, while Goater’s goal was the fastest ever netted in a derby from a player’s arrival on the pitch, regardless of stage of the game.
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DonateFor many, many years Dave Masey has been collecting stats and historical information on Manchester City. Like me he was a member of the Association of Football Statisticians and he has helped me often over the years. Following Saturday’s FA Cup final he got in touch with me to tell me about one of his spreadsheets which holds details of City scorers in trophy winning games.
His records capture those who have scored in major cup finals, but besides Cup Finals he also records other trophy-winning games. These include the deciding League games from 1937 onwards against Sheffield Wednesday (1937), Newcastle, QPR, West Ham, Brighton and Villa (2022), but nothing from three recent title successes where the Blues clinched the title when they were not playing. Got that? Good, now….
Dave tells me that Gundogan is now at the top of the list with 5 goals, overtaking Neil Young and Sergio Aguero. So he has scored more goals in trophy-winning games than any other Blue.
The list of scorers in trophy winning games reads:
| 1904 | Meredith |
| 1934/7 | Tilson (3), Brook (2), Doherty |
| 1956 | Hayes, Dyson, Johnstone |
| 1968/70 | Young (4), Lee (2), Summerbee, Doyle, Pardoe |
| 1976 | P Barnes, Tueart |
| 2011-(former) | Aguero (4), Y Toure (2), Nasri (2), Kompany (2), D Silva (2),Jesus (2), Sterling (2), Dzeko, Zabaleta, Navas, Fernandinho |
| 2016-(current) | Gundogan (5), Laporte (2), Rodri (2), Mahrez, De Bruyne |
Dave also tells me that in the three seasons where somebody else’s defeat clinched the title for City, the scorers in the club’s last game before the title confirmation were:
Gundogan (3), Sterling (2), Jesus, Haaland.
As Dave says, Ilkay gets a remarkable number of important goals, particularly for somebody who is ‘just’ a 1 goal in 5 games player (60 in 303 for City). Certainly this season he has played a true leader’s role and, looking at his place in this table, he is clearly a man for all trophy-winning seasons.
Thanks, as always to Dave, for this information.
Well, the first all-Manchester FA Cup final has been and gone but what a day? Before any major fixture you hope that it will live up to the hype and, as a historian, I always hope that something different than normal will occur, or a record will be broken.
I’m always keen on pointing out that history is made every day and that historians have to constantly re-evaluate what stories they are telling if they want to represent and record society as it changes. I am totally against those that think history is something that doesn’t move with the times and I always try to think about those who may be experiencing something for the first time. City’s 2023 FA Cup success could easily be the earliest footballing memory for some and what a memory it will be!
As I entered the stadium the entry gate and stairway I used had the usual years and landmark moments decorating its walls and I did notice the comment about the fastest goal in a FA Cup final (it claimed Di Matteo’s goal after 43 seconds was still the record, so that needed updating even before the game!). I didn’t expect any goal to occur in the first few minutes of the game, never mind the first few seconds. More on that in a moment.
The journey to Wembley was more difficult than normal, due to the rail strike and the fact so many were going down the same routes. The route I took, mostly M1, seemed busier than normal (normal – it’s ‘normal’ going to Wembley now!) but it was mostly City fans I saw. I’m sure others experienced something else but for me there were the occasional United vehicles. Most of the cars and coaches that I saw with colours showing (scarves out the window is an absolute must on days like these for many of us!) were blue not red. That reminded me a lot of the 2011 FA Cup semi final when every City car we saw was full of happy, laughing, smiling City fans pre-match but United fans seemed more serious or concerned with what the day would bring. The similarities between the two days were striking.
Traffic jams meant the journey was longer than anticipated but once we parked up in our usual spot (‘usual’, ‘normal’ – I hope that never changes) we were ready. A quick wander around was followed by buying the programme. I had two articles in this year’s FA Cup final programme – one on City & United’s first FA Cup successes in 1904 and 1909 and another was a peaks and troughs sort of timeline. Both pieces were neutral and I was delighted to be asked to contribute to the programme once more.
Inside the stadium the tickets we had bought were up at the back of level 5 block 546. Coincidentally just before kick off the people on the row behind us arrived and one was Ian Brightwell, one of the players when City defeated United in the only previous All-Manchester FA final (that was the 1986 FA Youth Cup).
As for the game. Well, what an opener! We’d not had chance to settle really when Gundogan netted that wonderful strike. I remember looking straight up to the video screen and seeing the clock change from 12 to 13 seconds. Incredible.
As Brightwell was behind me I couldn’t resist turning to him and saying ‘I see Gundogan “just wellied it!” like you did in 1990.’ For those that don’t remember or are too young Brightwell did a similar goal from several yards out in an Old Trafford derby in 1990. Afterwards while being interviewed he was asked about the goal but the interview kept being interrupted and so he had to answer the question multiple times. On the last occasion he simply answered: ‘I just wellied it!’ and the phrase entered City folklore.
There was the penalty given to United of course – I won’t go into the rights and wrongs of that but i do want to mention VAR. I find it absolutely ridiculous that those of us who have spent considerable time and effort in getting to Wembley and attending the final are the ones who knew least about what was going on. We had nothing on the screen to tell us a check was in progress; we had no opportunity to see the video clips and we only knew it was being reviewed when the ref stopped the game (after some time too! What if a player had been injured or another goal had been scored in the meantime?) and went over to the monitor.
The moment he headed towards the monitor we knew something was going to be given because I can’t think of a time when a ref has stuck to his guns in England (I’m sure it’s happened but I don’t remember).
The penalty changed the mood for a while, but City fans were in good voice when the second half started and it seemed inevitable then that the Blues would score again. I don’t think any of us expected Gundogan to be the man again but over these last few months he’s clearly led by example. He deserved the man of the final award and hopefully he’ll get further honours this season.
So the game ended 2-1 and City have achieved a coveted double again (last time was the only time an English club had won a domestic treble!). Brilliant work City and the season isn’t over yet!
It was wonderful to see the players celebrate. Those celebrations on the pitch demonstrated how much this all meant to them. People often try to suggest a domestic cup isn’t anything special but it absolutely is. How many of us have ever won a FA Cup? These players were outstanding and deserve tremendous praise, as does the manager of course.
People talk about money but City are not the biggest spenders either in actual outflow terms or in net spend terms. Like Alex Ferguson and United in the late 1980s/early 1990s, City have spent money on players to find success. Also, like United at that time trophy success brings additional income, gate receipts, prize money, sponsorship etc. which in turn can be used to invest in youth development and finding ways to sustain success. There’s no point going on about this but I do wish that people looked at the history of football and focused on fact rather than the fiction that often gets spouted.
On the way home there was a lot of talk on the radio about possible trebles and it was interesting that almost every phone-in I could find was trying to compare United’s 1999 treble with the possibility of City winning one this season. Who knows how Saturday will go and I won’t get drawn into that but I do want to say that United winning the treble was an incredible achievement. If City manage to do the same this year then that will also be an incredible achievement. So much has changed in 24 years that comparisons are ridiculous.
Actually, I did hear on the radio one presenter go on about how City have spent because ‘in 1999 when United were winning their treble they were getting promoted’ (paraphrased but basically that comment). Had I been able to call in I might have done because 24 years ago that is true but it is also true that 24 years before 1999 United were also getting promoted. It’s a similarity people have overlooked, but if somehow it is wrong for City to go from struggling team to potential treble winners in 24 years then surely it would also be wrong for United to do the same? Ah well! Facts not fiction.
When City got back to Manchester they were greeted by Elton John who, it has been said, waited to meet and congratulate them. The videos and photos are wonderful to watch. Noel Gallagher may have to watch out – usually he’s the one singing along with Pep and the players after a major trophy success.
While you are here why not have a look at the 100 day countdown I’m doing to mark the centenary of Maine Road’s first game? You can do a search on Maine Road or start by looking at this one:
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