Today (3 December) in 1969 saw this image of United star Nobby Stiles having ‘dialogue’ as the original caption claims with City fans at the Platt Lane end of Maine Road. This was the first leg of the League Cup semi final and City won the leg 2-1 with goals from Colin Bell and Franny Lee. You can watch highlights here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Y1KpM49Og
Manchester’s two top flight clubs met in their first ever League Cup tie between them during the 1969-70 season. That was the first season when all 92 League clubs entered the competition.
Here, for subscribers, is the background to each of the 1969-70 semi-final legs and a report on each game with lineups, attendance details etc.
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Today (17 December) in 1969 a 2-2 draw at Old Trafford was enough to send Manchester City to their first League Cup final. Manchester’s two top flight clubs met in their first ever League Cup tie between them during the 1969-70 season. That was the first season when all 92 League clubs entered the competition.
Here, for subscribers, is the background to each of the 1969-70 semi-final legs and a report on each game with lineups, attendance details etc.
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It’s post 82 of my 100 Maine Road countdown and today a reminder of the largest ever Manchester derby crowd for a game at City or United. On 20 September 1947 a crowd of approximately 78,000 witnessed the first post-war Manchester derby. A tense match ended goalless before the derby’s record crowd on a club ground. This attendance remained the highest for a Manchester derby until the 2011 FA Cup semi-final at Wembley Stadium. The return fixture, also played at Maine Road, was watched by 71,690.
Subscribers can read the story of the 1947 game (background, match report, statistics etc.) below:
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For post 73 of my Maine Rd 100 countdown I’ve posted this great newspaper cutting from a significant Manchester derby. The game was on 29th January in 1955 and goals from Joe Hayes and Don Revie gave Manchester City a 2-0 victory over Manchester United in the FAC in front of 74,723. I’ve posted it partly because of the game’s significance but mostly because I just love the way newspapers would try to explain everything via images and text like this.
If you’d like to know the story of the game and see some great footage of it too then please subscribe (see below).
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On this day (9 February) in 2003 Shaun Goater went down in history for a remarkable appearance as substitute. The Goat came on and scored for City a mere 9 seconds after coming on to the field. The story of this game was written up a couple of years ago for an update of my 1991 book The Pride Of Manchester (co-written with Steve Cawley). Sadly, that book was never updated, though Steve and I put considerable effort into creating all the content.
Here, exclusively for subscribers, is the story of that game as drafted to appear in the updated but aborted Pride Of Manchester.
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Newton Heath: William DOUGLAS, John McCARTNEY, Fred ERENTZ, Harry STONES, James McNAUGHT, William STEWART, John CLARKIN, Robert DONALDSON, James DOW, Richard SMITH, James PETERS. Manager: Alf Albut
Manchester City: Charlie WILLIAMS, John WALKER, David ROBSON, Harry SMITH, Robert JONES, John McBRIDE, Billy MEREDITH, Pat FINNERHAN, Sandy ROWAN, William McREDDlE, James SHARPLES. Manager: Joshua Parlby
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Over the last couple of years, usually when there’s a Manchester Derby, a number of myths, inaccuracies and twisting of the facts occurs. It’s usually just fan banter. I don’t normally get involved and try to ensure that whatever I post is factually based and something that is true. However, this week a number of supposed facts about the relationship between City and United have been posted that someone has claimed are ‘facts’ I’ve promoted in my work. So, to allow everyone to see the truth and what I have actually stated I’ve included below the supposed facts as they have been posted by others and then followed that with the truth based on years of research, triangulation etc. First of all the supposed ‘facts’…
This image has been posted outlining ways in which Manchester City are supposed to have helped United. Many of these are inaccurate, complete fabrications or exaggerated and I’d like to state quite clearly the following image does not reflect my views (apart from the bit I’ve added saying: ‘Not to be quoted – Inaccurate’).
This image is not my work and is not to be quoted as it contains inaccuracies.
So, now for the facts…
Starting from the top… 1931 – Nowhere do I say in my writing that City provided United with kit. I have never found any evidence whatsoever to say this is true. I do quote a City fan in my work who talks about how United fans gave themselves the nickname Rags in the 1930s because their kit looked ragged, but that’s a fan story and does not correlate with any evidence of City providing any kit to the Reds.
In any case United are known to have worn blue before 1931 and at no time, based on years of research by lots of people, did City give United kit. After World War Two City asked fans to help City get kit via fan clothing rations, but that’s not connected with United or 1931. I think (but don’t know, so don’t misquote this) that United may have done the same.
Next the stuff about 1945. I am mystified as to where all that stuff has come from about players going from City to United to help with construction? That’s definitely not something from any book or article I’ve written and no research I’m aware of (certainly not by me) has ever claimed this. I’d love to know what evidence has been found for this. If it’s there then great, but evidence and triangulation are definitely needed when supposed ‘facts’ like these are written.
Also, Old Trafford was bombed in 1941 not 1945 and United used Maine Rd for about 8 years.
Next the first point about 1958… Again I’d love to know where all that stuff about wages, transport & equipment costs has come from. I’ve never written that. City offered to help United in whatever way they could but to say City covered the costs of all that is a massive exaggeration.
On the second point about 1958… United did continue to play in the European Cup after Munich so that’s wrong for a start. UEFA did not offer City a place in the competition that City turned down. What happened was that UEFA said if United couldn’t play on then it would be right for City, as a Manchester club, to continue on United’s behalf. The FA said that they would choose a team not UEFA and that it would be Wolves (as they had been second in League). City said they would help United however possible to ensure they played on – that was their aim. Bert Trautmann offered translation services etc.
The problem is that whenever City’s help for United is exaggerated (or anything like this either way) it makes it easier for others to challenge and then the genuine, real facts get lost. City have helped United a lot over the last 125 years and the facts do not need exaggerating. In my books I talk of City’s cash donations in the early years of the last century which are all properly documented and recorded; of the two clubs working together in an act that was widely perceived by the media as protecting United and killing off the threat from Manchester Central; of the close-relationship between the clubs at times; of the offer to use Maine Road in 1941 (they did offer but that fact gets lost with all that inaccurate stuff); of the offer to use Maine Road again in 1956; of the close relationship and support in 1958… You can read the facts of all this in Manchester A Football History and also in various articles on this site. In fact the whole Manchester A Football History is available to download for annual subscribers here:
Sorry to have gone on about this but facts, evidence and triangulation are important. These are essential to my work and so when someone tells me that a load of inaccurate information is being circulated as fact and that it’s come directly from my work then I have to explain. Banter between rival fans is one thing but please don’t exaggerate or twist stories and claim that I’ve said they are facts when I haven’t.
On this day (4 October) in 1930 the Manchester derby ended City 4 United 1. It was the Reds’ ninth straight defeat of the season and they were relegated at the end of it. The Athletic News claimed: “City obviously grew sympathetic and declined to rub it in.” That’s the kind of wording they could have used again to describe the October 2022 derby when City were leading 6-1! Here’s the detailed story of that day:
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On this day (20 September) in 1947 a crowd of approximately 78,000 witnessed the first post-war Manchester derby. A tense match ended goalless before the derby’s record crowd on a club ground. This attendance remained the highest for a Manchester derby until the 2011 FA Cup semi-final at Wembley Stadium. The return fixture, also played at Maine Road, was watched by 71,690. Subscribers can read the story of the 1947 game (background, match report, statistics etc.) below:
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You can read this detailed article when you subscriber (plus all other material on the site). It costs £20 a year (£1.67 per month) to subscribe
On this day (29th January) in 1955 –goals from Joe Hayes and Don Revie give Manchester City a 2-0 victory over Manchester United in the FAC in front of 74,723. Here’s the story and film of that game (some great footage here!).
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If you would like to read this and the blog’s other in-depth, longer articles (including the entire Manchester A Football History book) then please subscribe below. It works out about £1.67 a month if you take out an annual subscription (£20 per year) or £3 a month if you’d like to sign up for a month at a time. Each subscriber gets full access to the 500+ articles posted so far and the hundreds scheduled to be posted in the coming weeks.
Gary James' Football Archive 